Why is this news? If you have an unpopular opinion, you're going to be ostracized. If you oppose Obamacare in SF, you're gonna be ostracized. If you support gun control in Odessa, you're gonna be ostracized. You're hired to work. Not to share your opinion with your co-workers. Why is this so hard for people to understand?
At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
281–290 of 418 posts
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#282Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, they didn't ban “affrimative action”; they banned a very small subset of the mechanisms that have been used for affirmative action in certain contexts.
Ok, yeah. But as a barometer of attitude, that's a lot of people who agree that affirmative action is a bad idea. It's not an unassailable tenet of American politics.
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#283Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'd call that holding them accountable You only get to do that after you understand their reasons, which you can then judge. > and I only know how they voted because they told me It doesn't work like that. People don't generally run around, telling everyone who they voted for. It usually comes up in conversations, where the person who divulges their choice don't expect to get hated for it. > Also, I'd put hating pe…
Actually it does work like that. Your conversation example is basically saying that even understanding your reasons that I'm supposed to give you a pass because ... because what? As for stupider, the color of your skin or your sexuality aren't choices. Whether you voted for Trump is. Holding someone accountable for their choices isn't stupid. Hating them for their race, sexuality, ... is. Your equivocation isn't gett…
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#284Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a two-way street. As a Christian, I get upset when I hear my employer promote Bhuddist values (inviting Bhuddist monks on-site to otherwise-nonreligious corporate events) while also parading their role in defeating legislation to protect religious clergy who hold traditionally-Christian beliefs from being sued over their beliefs. This communicates to me both "you're the enemy, and we are working hard to make…
I might be misunderstanding your comment, but I'm curious to hear more about why you have felt that Buddhist monks have been communicated as being "directly opposite" to Christian clergy? Having studied and adopted practices from both traditions, this statement doesn't seem to accurately reflect core values from either of them. (I understand that "Christian" and "Buddhist" are very broad categories, and that there ar…
"Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:16).
It is a core doctrine of Christianity that there is exactly one path to righteousness, which is through acknowledgement of personal sin and personal inability to pay the penalty for said sin, acceptance of the payment offered by Jesus Christ as the only way to pay that penalty, and submission to the Christian God as the only divine sovereign God.
Bhuddism is, from what I understand, a pluralistic religion, where there are many paths to enlightenment, and where many of those paths involve seeking something from within ones' self.
These are at odds as much as two signs saying "there is exactly one door to this room" and "there are many doors to this room".
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#285Earlier quoted context omitted.
My examples are just 4 quick things off the top of my head, there are probably many more. I also don't see your point about the deaf person (they're still treated differently -- you wouldn't talk vocally to them). I agree with your rule of thumb, but that seems like a positive description of the situation, not the normative one I'm looking for. You're giving me the conditions under which there will be outrage for dis…
I don't know if there even is a moral rule there. I feel like the root cause is simply people being insecure about threats to their identity, and anything above that being just rationalizations.
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#286I grew up in Texas but worked in Silicon Valley for a few years. One of the toughest adjustments was going from a small conservative town to a major liberal populace. It was astonishing the number of people who got angry _at me_ for having a different opinion then they did. At one workplace I saw two coworkers get into a fist fight because the liberal was "offended" that the conservative differed on a viewpoint. Go t…
Back in university, I had a flatmate that was pro-Bush. He wasn't unintelligent. He was getting his masters. He was a good guy and generally progressive in his views. He actually had pretty well laid out arguments as far as what he saw as best for the country and policy with the continuation of the Bush administration over Kerry. Both myself and my other housemates didn't understand it at the time, but I didn't lose…
There IS a difference between the political parties.
All you have to do is look at their voting records on key issue. Here's a comprehensive breakdown, for proof:
https://np.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6pc5qu/democrats...
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#287Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, to offer one clear example of harm, we have Nazis openly marching in the streets and arguing for racial cleansing of the US. As someone of Jewish decent, I find that pretty directly threatening. Given where those arguments have lead before -- the holocaust -- is allowing people to advocate for those viewpoints truly harmless?
I hate to call Godwin's law on this, but this argument is descending in that direction. And keep in mind, all the people who profited off that war: IBM who made the punch cards to track those interned, Ford motors who built the rail tracks for concentration camps, Ford himself who had his employees hand out anti-semetic propaganda, Prescot Bush/American Standard Oil who sold oil to both sides .. all these companies f…
I'm not saying I agree with it, but when trying to feel out the contours of an issue like this, it's important to start at the edges.
The issue of when ideology and ideas become actively "harmful" or "dangerous" is an extremely complex one with a ton of grey area. It makes sense to start with the extreme cases where some of that grey area is removed. Those who argue that it makes sense to actively work to silence certain ideas argue it on the basis that those ideas represent a real and present danger to their lives and safety.
This certainly goes for Jewish people, like me, arguing against an ideology that promotes genocide of us based on our heritage -- I'm not even religious nor do I identify that strongly with jewish tradition, but based on the Nazi's accounting I'd have been sent to the concentration camps. People voicing support for those ideas are essentially saying I should be murdered for no good reason.
I hold it's reasonable to feel threatened by that and even to react to that with violence. Though it's not the strategy I adopt or recommend, it's one I feel a reasonable case can be made for.
Move in towards (ever so slightly) greyer cases. Take for instance people of color arguing against ideas that they feel would marginalize them for the color of their skin. What's the history, how much do those ideas represent a clear and present threat to these people's safety? In the case of those arguing in favor of, say, more militarized and aggressive police -- you could make a decent argument that this represents a real and present threat to black people's safety, given the prevalence of police shootings. Similarly, support of more profiling of brown people or requiring papers for immigration status. That represents a certain threat to the safety of perfectly legal brown people in the case that they are profiled and detained because they can't produce their papers.
All I'm saying that this is a huge grey area and that it is important to recognize that some ideas, beliefs, and ideologies are not harmless and do on their own represent varying levels of threat to other people.
Words are not harmless. The pen can be mightier than the sword and it can cut both ways.
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#288Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, most of us conservatives have a core stance of "don't trust anything you care about to the government." Nothing more, nothing less. Liberals love to parade out the worst of us because then no "reasonable" person wants to be on that team. To be honest, I don't want to be on that team, but I'm not going to give up because I really believe there's a better way. Better to vote my conscience and try to improve t…
> Liberals love to parade out the worst of us The Republican Party. > try to improve the party reputation I'm afraid you've got quite a way to go there.
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#289Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, to offer one clear example of harm, we have Nazis openly marching in the streets and arguing for racial cleansing of the US. As someone of Jewish decent, I find that pretty directly threatening. Given where those arguments have lead before -- the holocaust -- is allowing people to advocate for those viewpoints truly harmless?
Yes because then you can easily break them down by showing people that those people are scumbags. Otherwise you will only see increased support if you do not let them express their opinions.
We can't just ignore the fact that there is a well reasoned argument there in favor of treating certain ideas and ideology as active violent threats.
It's also a real and present issue to many people in the current climate.
Re: At liberal tech companies, those who disagree on politics say they’re isolated
#290Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually it does work like that. Your conversation example is basically saying that even understanding your reasons that I'm supposed to give you a pass because ... because what? As for stupider, the color of your skin or your sexuality aren't choices. Whether you voted for Trump is. Holding someone accountable for their choices isn't stupid. Hating them for their race, sexuality, ... is. Your equivocation isn't gett…
My point is that judging a person - a sophisticated individual with complex life history and embedded in equally complex environment - by just few bits of information, is a very stupid thing to do in general. There are situations in which you have no other choice, when few bits is all you have to go on and you need to make some decision. But those situations are very rare. In a typical case, such evaluation is just i…