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How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

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Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#291

Post by dx034 »

maneesh wrote: post #184
Silhouette wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They could shut down all their European operations, but that would cost them a lot more than 4% of revenue. There's an interesting assumption in there, and I'm not entirely sure it's a correct one. Facebook and its subsidiaries play a large part in many people's everyday lives now, in particular forming the main way a lot of people stay in touch with their friends and family. It is not at all clear to me what would h…

What if they said 'sorry but -- starting next month, we will have to charge you for accessing parts of facebook. We will have to do this until the EU changes the law. I bet customers would rally against the law rather than pay microtransactions.

Or use a competitor who complies? Maybe Google+ would finally take off in the end? Don't underestimate how important privacy is to many Europeans. People are seriously worried about how their data is used.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#292

Post by dx034 »

tajen wrote: post #128
M2Ys4U wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but who exactly is processing personal data with zero revenue?

Startups?

In that case it's the EU's way of telling you that your startup idea isn't that great. Basing a startup idea on illegal techniques is not a good idea. Snapchat could've succeeded without that data so there's no reason why startups cannot adapt.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#293

Post by RivieraKid »

emn13 wrote: post #287
simonh wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fine doesn't absolve you of responsibility for complying. If you're fined you have to pay up AND you have to comply. Otherwise they'll just fine you again, as they did to Google.

Nevertheless, a 4% fine is very low, given the low frequency of fining. Tech firm margins are much larger than this; so while it's clearly unethical to do so, it may be more profitable to simply accept the fines as a kind of tax for as long as possible, and to continue to profit from all that data until things get really dire. In actuality; a firm wouldn't need to choose quite so starkly to flaunt the law; simply fai…

I really doubt that these companies would lose more than 4% revenue by complying. Worse ad-targeting in the EU is not worth that much.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#294

Post by dx034 »

aninhumer wrote: post #218
scythe wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The company I work for has no ads. It does no analytics on personal info. It does nothing you would care about. What it is is a SasS product for businesses. We aren't the controller, so we don't need permission from end users, our customers need to get permission from their customers. But end users can ask our customer (the controller) to delete data, and our customer can ask us (the processor) to delete it. So you…

Based on what they said, it sounds like they store personal info on behalf of their business clients, but don't look at it themselves. Their point is that this law still requires them to implement the granularity to delete individual records so their clients can be compliant. (I don't think it absolves them of any responsibility to implement privacy measures, but it does at least make sense.)

I don't understand how this is a surprising feature. Shouldn't every decent system be able to delete all data of one user without affecting other data?

That companies haven't even thought of being able to delete user data makes the law even more important. It should be common business practice to delete data if a user asks, not something technically impossible.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#295

Post by marsRoverDev »

taysic wrote: post #182
shadowtree wrote: post #32

And if you think GDPR is a toothless joke, let's take a look at the defined fine stucture. It is pretty simple, only 3 levels (strikes for the fellow Americans): Strike 1 - Stern warning letter Strike 2 - 2% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE Strike 3 - 4% of your TOTAL GLOBAL REVENUE (or 20mil EUR, whichever is higher) And now you know why GDPR is a board level topic. Keep in mind that the EU/US Safe Harbor agreement got…

Why is it Global revenue? It seems presumptive for the EU to want a share of their global revenue rather than EU revenue

Also, it is worded to say that it's 4% of global revenue for your parent company.

So there is no setting up an offshored tiny company to wear the liability - your parent company is on the hook, wherever that money may reside.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#296

Post by dx034 »

mattmanser wrote: post #11
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #9

> The critical question for both businesses is whether users will click “yes”, when asked to consent. Yes, users will click yes on basically anything. Facebook could put up a message that says "In order to proceed, click yes to give us half the money in your checking account" and the majority of Facebook users will still click through. Look at EU cookie warnings. Did any of those warnings noticeably impact anybody's…

Cookie warnings is a bad example as it was widely acknowledged by anyone vaguely techy that they'd got it completely wrong from the start.

The difference is that cookie warnings only inform you, they don't offer a choice. The excessive use of personal data is something that most businesses don't need for their core purpose and something that users are certainly worried about (at least in Europe).

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#297

Post by RivieraKid »

Silhouette wrote: post #155
s17n wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of these companies do business in the EU, have offices and employees in the EU, etc. They are clearly subject to EU jurisdiction. They could shut down all their European operations, but that would cost them a lot more than 4% of revenue.

They could shut down all their European operations, but that would cost them a lot more than 4% of revenue. There's an interesting assumption in there, and I'm not entirely sure it's a correct one. Facebook and its subsidiaries play a large part in many people's everyday lives now, in particular forming the main way a lot of people stay in touch with their friends and family. It is not at all clear to me what would h…

Simple, someone else would take the market. In fact, I think it would benefit the EU over the long-term.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#298

Post by RivieraKid »

dx034 wrote: post #291
maneesh wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if they said 'sorry but -- starting next month, we will have to charge you for accessing parts of facebook. We will have to do this until the EU changes the law. I bet customers would rally against the law rather than pay microtransactions.

Or use a competitor who complies? Maybe Google+ would finally take off in the end? Don't underestimate how important privacy is to many Europeans. People are seriously worried about how their data is used.

No, someone would create a copycat product. Hire a bunch of programmers and you can launch within a month or two. Extremely lucrative investment.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#299

Post by trashtester »

usaphp wrote: post #53
mnm1 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more penalties were like this. This sounds great. Now these companies will finally have real incentive to comply. Hell, the percentages should be higher. That's the only way to enforce regulations. Otherwise, they'll just pay a puny fine, American style, and not do shit.

It's a percent from revenue not from profit. So 5% from google revenue is a lot

It is. On the other hand, companies like Google/Facebook/MS/Apple have such huge profit margins that a conviction will be but a speed bump, and given that their business model is based on the data regulated by GDPR to such a great extent, one may expect them to challenge the new regulations as much as they can. They also (probably) have the most competent legal divisions, which will help them exploit any gray areas.

For companies with lower profit margins or companies that are hit by the lower limit of $20M euro, the threat is much greater. Small companies may go immediately bancrupt from a $20M euro fine, while companies with slimmer margins may be taken from black to red results by a 4% fine.

From my pesonal experience, many such companies do not fully grasp to what extent these regulations will affect their business models if actually enforced.

Re: How the GDPR Will Disrupt Google and Facebook

#300

Post by nthcolumn »

Slartie wrote: post #136
antoncohen wrote: post #94

I encourage a little more thought before cheering this on as a win. While GDPR isn't as ridiculous as the Cookie Law, it still shows that the EU/EC don't understand the technology they are trying to regulate, and it comes at a huge cost to tech companies. Take the right to be forgotten . First of all, it should be common sense that no one has the right to force legitimate news articles to disappear because they don't…

> First of all, it should be common sense that no one has the right to force legitimate news articles to disappear because they don't like the content, but that is what the EU has ruled should happen. No, it is about deleting personal data attached to your user account, not "news articles". This thing intends to make the "delete my account" button to actually, you know, "delete my account", instead of fake-deleting i…

>No, it is about deleting personal data attached to your user account, not "news articles".

No it is exactly that! The test case was from a man specifically Mario Costeja González wishing for his past financial embarrassments to be erased.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Spain_v_AEPD_and_Mario_...

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