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Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#381

Post by andrepd »

gaius wrote: post #299
munificent wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is this not equally a problem with the establishment right in the United States? They aren't being a genuine, credible anti-corporate voice either. Or do they get off the hook because we just assume that there's no chance they would ever be that?

They aren't being a genuine, credible anti-corporate voice either. Yes and no. Trump was elected on a platform of tearing up TPP, TTIP, NAFTA etc, all of which are loved by large corporations looking to offshore work and evade taxes. There are a lot of people who voted for that anti-corporate message, and against Hillary who was obviously in Wall Street's pocket. I mean, the guy has been in the public eye since what,…

That's why he stacked his administration with Goldman Sachs and Big Oil types, right?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#382

Post by sbov »

gaius wrote: post #334
kromem wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Go ahead and avoid anything hosted on or using AWS. Might be a bit difficult, and you may reconsider Amazon's scale relative to Google.

A fair point but I've not seen even a hint that Amazon themselves are tracking me across AWS hosted services. Do you have any evidence or links?

I'm pretty sure companies would not be happy if they found out Amazon was tracking those companies' customers. If it got out, it would probably be huge. Not worth it for Amazon to do this.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#383

Post by milcron »

DrScump wrote: post #380
milcron wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most well-known socialist economies were central command economies, it is true. But "socialism" isn't synonymous with central command. It's supposed to mean the economy is controlled by the workers, rather than by capitalists/shareholders. In the USSR, the economy was controlled by the communist party on behalf of the workers. Under democratic socialism, enterprises are democratically managed by the people who wo…

...on behalf of the workers That is debatable.

Ha, well. That's what they said they were doing. In practice it was much more of a plutocracy.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#384

Post by ocdtrekkie »

Jerry2 wrote: post #172
21 wrote: post #5

Obligatory Taleb comment: "Think tanks are natural lobbies w/a facade of "research" Their cover allows them to censor dissent from monoculture" https://twitter.com/nntaleb/status/902859415375798274 OT: I'm curious how many hours will this post survive on the front page

>OT: I'm curious how many hours will this post survive on the front page Not long. HN heavily censors any criticism of Google and yet any blog post from one of the official Google sites stays on the front page for a whole day.

I've come to recognize over time that HN itself is not really censorship-heavy. But it relies heavily on ranking based on community effects, and for certain types of articles, that leads it interesting places.

For sure, Googlers downvote a lot of critical comments and surely flag posts they feel are inaccurate. There are a LOT of Googlers and quite a few of them are very active here. Some are even vocally opposed to disclosing their employer.

The other thing is that many posts critical of companies are extremely controversial here. HN is a weird mixing pot of startup folks from the Valley and hackers and code enthusiasts, so there are some very pro-business and very anti-business voices.

Where this plays in is that HN tends to push threads with a lot of argument and debate off the front page much faster. Announcements of new products aren't nearly as controversial as a post about say... James Damore's memo.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#385

Post by fish_fan »

wfo wrote: post #102
dublinben wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your estimation, are you placing the very active and loud anti-corporate voices in this country outside of American politics, or merely denying that they are genuine?

By active and loud anti-corporate voices do you mean the pro-corporate liberal party, the pro-corporate conservative party, the corporate-owned TV media or the pro-corporate mainstream newspapers? There are anti corporate voices like e.g. Chomsky, Sanders, and they all have a couple of characteristics in common: they are ignored by the powers that be. They are without platforms, and they are without power.

> There are anti corporate voices like e.g. Chomsky, Sanders, and they all have a couple of characteristics in common: they are ignored by the powers that be. They are without platforms, and they are without power.

Thankfully in the US the people have a lot of power, and Sanders is active in politics no matter how much the "powers that be" attempt to dismiss him.

Warren is also anti-corporate, though I'll admit I don't know the extent, and I think she is easier to see as a mainstream democrat than Sanders is.

My point being Sanders may not be accepted by the mainstream, but this is an unprecedented (since the 50s) level of acceptance of a class perspective. I'm not sure why you would explicitly ignore this change of events.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#386

Post by [deleted] »

adventured wrote: post #104
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not the only two options. I believe there are anti corporate forces in American politics, and they are genuine, but, by and large, they are far too small and disorganized to have a a significant effect on American politics. This is in large contrast to anti-corporate forces in much of Europe. Bernie has/is changing that, but even then I would argue the main power structures haven't changed.

> Bernie has/is changing that, but even then I would argue the main power structures haven't changed. Bernie isn't / hasn't changed anything and won't. Sanders comes at the problem from a position that is considered Socialist (even though he's only a Socialist in name for the headlines), which will keep him forever in a cordoned off box. The last force in US politics with any influence in that regard, was Ralph Nader…

[deleted]

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#387

Post by DrScump »

hgsigala wrote: post #152
fowlerpower wrote: post #17

The thing is that Google has absolutely gone down questionable path from their early days. It is a little unfair to think this problem exists only within Google. Time and time again we are reminded why corporations will evolve to become as greedy and as protective of their turf expansive of their power and monopolistic as they can get, even if good people are running them. It is the system itself that does this, corp…

If folks want to join the movement the staff is building, you can get involved here: https://citizensagainstmonopoly.org/ If you want to do more than that, here is some more information on the staff, story and other action items: https://goo.gl/9a7KkC

Using URL shorteners here in general is inappropriate.

Choosing to use Google's URL shortener in this context is beyond ironic.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#388

Post by belovedeagle »

andrepd wrote: post #379
belovedeagle wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been assured by innumerable statists that the government invented the internet. But I'm not sure in what market exactly Google is a monopoly? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of advertising and big data companies doing just fine.

You're not sure in what market is Google a monopoly? Searches, for one, internet video as well... If the trend continues, web browsers as well (Chrome is fast approaching the level of usage share as IE at its peak).

Those aren't products. Google's main products are advertising and user data. They can't be monopolists in markets they're not even participating in.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#389

Post by interstitial »

andrepd wrote: post #379
belovedeagle wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been assured by innumerable statists that the government invented the internet. But I'm not sure in what market exactly Google is a monopoly? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of advertising and big data companies doing just fine.

You're not sure in what market is Google a monopoly? Searches, for one, internet video as well... If the trend continues, web browsers as well (Chrome is fast approaching the level of usage share as IE at its peak).

Forget it Jake, it's SV. All is well that exits well. And google did that.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#390

Post by throwaway1232-4 »

seccess wrote: post #373
redm wrote: post #93

The key point of the article is this: “Google is very aggressive in throwing its money around Washington and Brussels, and then pulling the strings,” Mr. Lynn said. “People are so afraid of Google now.” Honestly, the only thing shocking about any of this is that people thought Google was "special". The reality is, when its revenues are threatened, it's going to reach like any other corporation, which it should. Googl…

If you are considering no longer using Google or one of their products: they offer an easy way to export your (signed in) data for archival, or even wholesale delete your account and take all your data with you: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190 Not trying to encourage anyone one way or the other, but a good FYI to keep in mind.

I don't think Google is bad. But with my engineer hat on, I choose to diversify my risks. In particular, if Google chooses to disable my account, I don't want my email, my phone (and phone service), my ISP, my calendar, my documents and slides, my navigation, etc., all to instantly drop dead at the same time.

Just say yes to diversity! ;-)

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