Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#101

Post by sillysaurus3 » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:30 PM UTC

mythrwy wrote: post #32

waisbrot wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article wasn't suggesting that Google has to fund its critics. The article was describing how a theoretically independent think-tank was compromised by Google. First Google offers you money for the work you're already doing. Once you become dependent on that money, they can threaten to take it away. The problem is that the only way to be truly independent is to take no money from corporations. But any group that…

Have I awoken in an alternate universe? Once 21 million dollars was accepted there isn't an "independence" theoretical or otherwise. It's ludicrous to existentially attack the company giving this money and expect not be removed from the group. If you want true independence it has to be something like citizen grass roots funding. And even that probably has a bias. But it would be a start. Expecting anything but specia…

Eh, I don't know why you're being hammered for saying this. Both your comments seem pretty accurate. And it's not like you were being crass or something.

I wonder if the idea simply bothers people?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#102

Post by wfo » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:31 PM UTC

dublinben wrote: post #63

CPLX wrote: post #15

This isn't a problem with Google, it's a problem with the establishment left in the United States. There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics. The reasons why are many, but of course they typically distill down to the incredible power of money to influence people, of which this is an example. The side-effects of there being no credible labor party in our political system manifests, in part…

In your estimation, are you placing the very active and loud anti-corporate voices in this country outside of American politics, or merely denying that they are genuine?

By active and loud anti-corporate voices do you mean the pro-corporate liberal party, the pro-corporate conservative party, the corporate-owned TV media or the pro-corporate mainstream newspapers? There are anti corporate voices like e.g. Chomsky, Sanders, and they all have a couple of characteristics in common: they are ignored by the powers that be. They are without platforms, and they are without power.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#103

Post by mcguire » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:33 PM UTC

blfr wrote: post #84

2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was never good. They only ever did what they thought fit their strategy at the time, to allow them to grow and make more money.

Google was fantastic and contributed greatly to breaking the iron grip Microsoft had on the industry. They also completely changed the way we use the Internet, pushed network and security technologies forward and to the end user, and made sure iPhone/iOS have a worthy competition in the smartphone market. It is very sad that they went down the censorship path. Especially since the open web made Google Search a viable…

Anyone remember when they bought DoubleClick, one of the most reviled companies on the net?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#104

Post by adventured » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:34 PM UTC

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #82

dublinben wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your estimation, are you placing the very active and loud anti-corporate voices in this country outside of American politics, or merely denying that they are genuine?

Those are not the only two options. I believe there are anti corporate forces in American politics, and they are genuine, but, by and large, they are far too small and disorganized to have a a significant effect on American politics. This is in large contrast to anti-corporate forces in much of Europe. Bernie has/is changing that, but even then I would argue the main power structures haven't changed.

> Bernie has/is changing that, but even then I would argue the main power structures haven't changed.

Bernie isn't / hasn't changed anything and won't. Sanders comes at the problem from a position that is considered Socialist (even though he's only a Socialist in name for the headlines), which will keep him forever in a cordoned off box. The last force in US politics with any influence in that regard, was Ralph Nader. He accomplished greater than ten times what Sanders has or will (and given his age at this point, the clock is ticking) when it comes to anti-corporate power checking. The Democrats lit Nader on fire and buried him politically for opposing their establishment one too many times.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#105

Post by rangibaby » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:34 PM UTC

abpavel wrote: post #57

You either die a hero, or live long enough to see yourself become the villain

I know that after my death a pile of rubbish will be heaped on my grave, but the wind of History will sooner or later sweep it away without mercy. - Stalin

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#106

Post by eighthnate » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

> There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics.

That's because politics in the US requires money and no politician can rise to the mainstream without money. Not only that, if the capital interests saw you rising in local/state elections, then they could fund your opponents and whittle you down.

We are a nation ruled by money/capital. NK is a nation ruled by the kim family. The chinese are a nation ruled by the communist power. Someone in the US going against corporate interests has as promising a political future as a north korean politician railing against the kim family or a chinese politician going against the communist party.

Everyone, including the politicians, have to play by the rules of the system.

Look at the past election, both trump and clinton were pro-corporate/capital politicians. Hillary was probably even more pro-corporations/neo-liberalism than trump. But democrats will argue that hillary cared about the lowly workers.

But can you really blame the clintons, trumps, obamas, bushes or any other politician in the US? They are just playing the game within the system.

Ultimately, in the US, both the republican and democratic parties serve one master - the capital owners. The US is really a 1 party nation if you look beyond the silly social issues that the republican and democratic play off of each other to distract the masses.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#107

Post by Chaebixi » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:42 PM UTC

pgodzin wrote: post #80

kushti wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But others didn't start with "Do No Evil" motto (transformed now into "Do the Right Thing").

Google's still is "Don't be evil", Alphabet's is "Do the Right Thing"

> Alphabet's is "Do the Right Thing"

For the shareholders, of course. Does anyone else even matter?

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#108

Post by kuschku » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #83

cisanti wrote: post #43

If U.S or E.U would want to break up Google, how would it realistically work? I hope we see that happening, the company has become a monster and can literally tell the world what to think and how to feel.

Well, bear in mind, the US and the EU effectively can only mandate how Google operates as long as it does business there. So both the US and the EU have the ability to demand Google be broken up, but it will be up to Google, as an international entity, whether they want to leave the territory that orders it or comply to the extent that the regulator in a sovereign territory is appeased. See also, the recent Canadian…

You have to remember, though, that these aren’t small national governments.

If Google really pissed off the EU, or US, they could simply force all banks to freeze Google’s assets, and seize them. This has worked in the past, and can be used again.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#109

Post by blfr » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

eighthnate wrote: post #106

> There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics. That's because politics in the US requires money and no politician can rise to the mainstream without money. Not only that, if the capital interests saw you rising in local/state elections, then they could fund your opponents and whittle you down. We are a nation ruled by money/capital. NK is a nation ruled by the kim family. The chinese are a…

First, Trump was completely outspent by Clinton and won. Money follows the likely winner and this weird political betting market usually gets it right. It's also hard to say that he served the GOP. It very much looked like the elephant reluctantly did what Trump told it to do.

Second, Trump campaigned on lowering immigration and tariffs, by far the most anti-corporate policies American president supported in the living memory.

Both of your points are seriously weakened by the 2016 elections.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#110

Post by Tistel » Wed, Aug 30, 2017, 2:51 PM UTC

Google might want to look at the history of Standard Oil and the old US wide singular Bell Telephone. If you get so big that you can abuse your power, you will probably start to do so (power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely ...). They tend to get broken up into less powerful pieces. How you break up Google, I don't know. They are an ad tech company with the best search engine and a bunch of money loosing ancillary activities.