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Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#371

Post by root_axis »

kobeya wrote: post #359
root_axis wrote: post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The comments I don't like are noise". Sorry, but I think that sentiment sounds more hostile to the platform than the assertion that one should consider a different point of view on a subject. ballenf's comment was made succinctly and without any personal attacks; just because you disagree with it doesn't mean its noise. I think it's fair to criticize the comment as striking a dismissive tone, but at least it's addre…

Wow that's disingenuous. No, comments that are off-topic are noise. You want to debate something else (like you're doing now!), go do it in a different thread.

> No, comments that are off-topic are noise.

All you're doing here is begging the question. What i'm telling you is that the comment does not meet the definition of "off-topic" and I've explained my reasoning for that, all you've done is repeat the same sentiment that "off-topic comments are noise" which is a completely non-controversial statement that nobody is arguing against. Absent of any further reasoning I am left to assume that you simply do not like the comment.

For someone with such a self-righteous attitude regarding the tenants of appropriate discourse, you're sure lacking in respect for fellow commenters by your refusal to provide any justification for flippantly dismissing others comments as "off-topic noise". Normally I expect others to provide reasoning for blanket dismissals, but I suppose you must be the definitive authority on what is and isn't off topic, so everyone who disagrees will just take your word for it and move on.

> You want to debate something else (like you're doing now!), go do it in a different thread.

Haha, this entire subthread is a direct branch off of your explicitly off-topic comment, yet you're suggesting that I go away because I had the audacity to push back on your blanket dismissal... yet somehow I suspect you don't consider your own replies in this thread to be off-topic noise. I have to respectfully conclude that you're at least twice as disingenuous as a person who will gladly expound on the reasoning behind their arguments.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#372

Post by belorn »

afsina wrote: post #356
dbingham wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could also call it "Free Market Socialism" which is my person favorite term for it. Although "Democratic Economy" is also apt.

That term is an oxymoron.

This will just end up being a discussion about definitions, but lets dip into it.

We can define a socialism government to be one that have the goal of having social ownership and democratic control of the means of production.

We can define a free market to be one in which the laws and forces of supply and demand are free from any intervention by a government, price-setting monopoly, or other authority.

Thus a Free Market Socialism would be socialism which achieve social ownership and democratic control of the means of production by having a government that prevents price-setting monopolies.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#373

Post by seccess »

redm wrote: post #93

The key point of the article is this: “Google is very aggressive in throwing its money around Washington and Brussels, and then pulling the strings,” Mr. Lynn said. “People are so afraid of Google now.” Honestly, the only thing shocking about any of this is that people thought Google was "special". The reality is, when its revenues are threatened, it's going to reach like any other corporation, which it should. Googl…

If you are considering no longer using Google or one of their products: they offer an easy way to export your (signed in) data for archival, or even wholesale delete your account and take all your data with you: https://support.google.com/accounts/answer/3024190

Not trying to encourage anyone one way or the other, but a good FYI to keep in mind.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#374

Post by emmelaich »

visarga wrote: post #311
ep103 wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the norm up until IIRC reagan, Bush 1. The reason we switched off of it, was around that time, the idea was the allow more consolidation at the expense of competition. The rationale was that the American marketplace was already significantly competitive, to the point that market growth was labor constrained, as opposed to today, where it is capital constrained. So by allowing more merges and decreasing overa…

Interesting, I never thought of antitrust as a scale, or that it should adapt to the state of the economy. I just thought monopolies are bad.

Monopolies are bad but "perfect competition only exists at the point of collapse" [1]

A benevolent monopoly can be OK but both of the extremes of competition come with instability.

[1] I put that in quotes because I thought it was a famous well-known quote but I can't find the original!

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#375

Post by belovedeagle »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #337
belovedeagle wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> should be split up It may be weird that no one is arguing that (maybe it's just no one you're listening to, or being allowed to listen to, though?), but it's not weird that it's not libertarians. The notion that some people shouldn't be allowed to form voluntary associations with others because they got "too large" is anti-libertarian. That said, "libertarianism" and "anarcho-capitalism" are becoming too synonymous…

>All hope is not lost, however: there is reason to believe that these monopolies derive much of their monopolistic power through the state How has google derived monopolistic power through the state?

I have been assured by innumerable statists that the government invented the internet.

But I'm not sure in what market exactly Google is a monopoly? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of advertising and big data companies doing just fine.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#376

Post by taurath »

CPLX wrote: post #15

This isn't a problem with Google, it's a problem with the establishment left in the United States. There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics. The reasons why are many, but of course they typically distill down to the incredible power of money to influence people, of which this is an example. The side-effects of there being no credible labor party in our political system manifests, in part…

Corporations have moved left in part because they realize that they've won already with the Right. The Right hates government so much they will never vote for anyone with more government control. I sometimes think thats why corporations have moved more left on social issues, so you can have the NeoLiberal globalists overshadowing the workers-rights left.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#377

Post by deepnotderp »

munificent wrote: post #183
CPLX wrote: post #15

This isn't a problem with Google, it's a problem with the establishment left in the United States. There's no genuine, credible anti-corporate voice in American politics. The reasons why are many, but of course they typically distill down to the incredible power of money to influence people, of which this is an example. The side-effects of there being no credible labor party in our political system manifests, in part…

Why is this not equally a problem with the establishment right in the United States? They aren't being a genuine, credible anti-corporate voice either. Or do they get off the hook because we just assume that there's no chance they would ever be that?

I consider myself pretty decently to the left, and from my perspective the difference is that the establishment left feigns to be for the people, while still being 100% for corporations. So in a sense, I consider it "false advertising" if that makes sense, when voters vote left, they get something they didn't actually want.

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#378

Post by masonic »

polishTar wrote: post #182

The response from new america seems to indicate there's more to this story: https://www.newamerica.org/new-america/press-releases/new-am...

The original June 27 press release:

https://www.newamerica.org/open-markets/press-releases/open-...

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#379

Post by andrepd »

belovedeagle wrote: post #375
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>All hope is not lost, however: there is reason to believe that these monopolies derive much of their monopolistic power through the state How has google derived monopolistic power through the state?

I have been assured by innumerable statists that the government invented the internet. But I'm not sure in what market exactly Google is a monopoly? I'm pretty sure there are plenty of advertising and big data companies doing just fine.

You're not sure in what market is Google a monopoly? Searches, for one, internet video as well... If the trend continues, web browsers as well (Chrome is fast approaching the level of usage share as IE at its peak).

Re: Google Critic Ousted from Think Tank Funded by the Tech Giant

#380

Post by DrScump »

milcron wrote: post #366
afsina wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That term is an oxymoron.

The most well-known socialist economies were central command economies, it is true. But "socialism" isn't synonymous with central command. It's supposed to mean the economy is controlled by the workers, rather than by capitalists/shareholders. In the USSR, the economy was controlled by the communist party on behalf of the workers. Under democratic socialism, enterprises are democratically managed by the people who wo…

  ...on behalf of the workers
That is debatable.
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