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Facebook – You are the Product

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Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#311

Post by tripzilch »

Prefinem wrote: post #234
compiler-guy wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is again an argument that the tradeoff is worth it, not that it is easy. Trade that off if you like, not not everyone does.

So what am I trading here? Facebook vs having acquaintances?

Addiction versus having to put up with people defending their addiction as a "social habit".

It's like smoking in the 80s, with the ostracism turned up to 11.

The good news being, what seemed impossible then, we slowly seem to be winning the tide against smoking. Speaking as a (currently..) ex-smoker. If you remember we used to be allowed to smoke in restaurants (I can hardly believe it myself, sometimes), how the consensus felt back then, there is hope :)

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#312

Post by tripzilch »

compiler-guy wrote: post #220
michaelmrose wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone has an email. You are comparing opening a different app on your phone which requires you to move your finger an inch to a 1000 mile trek. Anyone who can't move their finger an inch to click on a different ubiquitous app to contact you isn't your friend regardless of what you think.

It isn't just moving your finger an inch. It's contacting you differently than they contact literally every one else in their social circle. And thanks for the incredible insight into who is my friend and who isn't. Your ability to judge from several paragraphs of my writing and nothing more is pretty impressive. The things I missed weren't really, my friends exactly, but rather broad groups with common interests. If…

> And thanks for the incredible insight into who is my friend and who isn't.

Read it again. He's not actually saying that.

Buddy I'm pretty sure it is your inability to judge just how many of your friends would still take the effort to reach out to you if you were to quit being a FB user, given any of the good reasons to do so.

Just like you might fear they won't be your friends or you won't be having a good time if you don't drink with them. That fear is most probably not real. And if it does turn out to be true, in the case if alcohol you probably dodged a bullet. And in the case of FB use ... well it's your call.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#313

Post by tripzilch »

pessimizer wrote: post #254
michaelmrose wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A social network isn't a place which implies exclusivity. If you are at one place you aren't at another and it also implies significant effort to move from one place to another. Sending an email really does imply moving your finger an inch to use a different app.

How dare you imply that a real friend would lift a finger for me.

Hey psssht! I'm trying to boast about my low expectations of friendship in order to defend my addiction, here! I just want to be ... "liked".

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#314

Post by tripzilch »

Swizec wrote: post #191
Prefinem wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those aren't your friends buddy. >No, we didn't, because 99% of our friends use the very useful party organizing app with integrated chat and picture sharing, Facebook. My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there.

> My friends will actively invite me (I don't use facebook) to events if they want me there. The part where you get left out is when someone from your squad sees a cool event and decides to go. They're going regardless of who else is going, but it would be nice to have some friends there. So they post in the squad group chat "Hey I'm going to this event, anyone in?" aaaaand that's about it as far as organization goes…

I think it's pretty bad to restrict this sort of communication (which nowhere requires anything remotely like FB use) to a singular communication channel and actively hampering any attempts to transparently include other methods that do not not involve FB use.

And the buck doesn't stop at FB or its developers, now you are forcing other people start using, too.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#315

Post by tripzilch »

Swizec wrote: post #198
Prefinem wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> casual larger stuff casual isn't friendship. My friends and I, hang out because we enjoy each others company and like to do things together. Not to invite people because we are lonely. Plus, I don't mind being "left out" or "missing something". As I get older, it's just not worth the hassle

> casual isn't friendship Why not? People are busy. They have jobs and partners and pets and sometimes kids. All of that takes time and attention. These days I talk less to my closest friends than I did to my farthest acquaintances in high school or even college. It's kinda sad but that's just how it is. And trying to get together face-to-face? LoL, it can take months to align our schedules. And when it comes to larg…

> These days I talk less to my closest friends than I did to my farthest acquaintances in high school or even college. It's kinda sad but that's just how it is.

Well, at least now you have your FB to collectively like and share away your sorrows. I'm sure you feel less sad while you're on it.

> If I want to invite you to a party like that, are we not friends?

If you do not invite me to this party just because I don't use FB? What do you think yourself? Would you call yourself my friend?

I mean if you forget, ok. But if you keep forgetting, yes that is how friendships wither and die. This is a natural thing. If it feels like a painful idea to lose someone's friendship that way, watering it is really one of the easiest things to do. If instead it feels like it is a hard thing to do, then ask yourself and consider what you really fear losing? (probably something other than friendship--not necessarily bad)

You can of course use FB to connect with friends. But, like alcohol, you cannot justify lack of FB to justify not connecting with your friends.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#316

Post by tripzilch »

Swizec wrote: post #203
Prefinem wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I want to invite you to a party like that, are we not friends Acquaintances or good acquaintances. I think this boils down to each person's definition of friends and friendship along with the amount of social interaction each person needs. I need very little social interaction, so I tend to keep close friends and not much else. I know others who always like to be around someone. They don't care much who it is, a…

> Acquaintances or good acquaintances. So I'm throwing a party with just acquaintances and no friends are coming? That feels weird. > I need very little social interaction Me too. Which is why I tend to keep to myself, and throw a huge rager for as many people as I can get to show up a couple times per year. Maybe I don't really have any close friends anymore, the definition gets muddy when most everyone you used to…

> > Acquaintances or good acquaintances.

> So I'm throwing a party with just acquaintances and no friends are coming? That feels weird.

> But my point is that when I'm organizing a party, I want everyone. Acquaintances and close friends alike. It feels weird that just because I'm organizing a larger event, that should automatically make everyone I invite a not-friend.

I'm really confused now, do you invite your friends that are not FB users, or not?

Or do you claim that you have zero friends that are not FB users?

Do you require all your friends to be on FB? What about the ones who quit, do they just drop off your radar or something?

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#317

Post by tripzilch »

endless1234 wrote: post #280
pessimizer wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The party didn't want him. No one at that party cared enough to make less of an effort to inform him that there was a party than it would take me to get a glass of water from the kitchen.

Sending snail mail is pretty easy too. If you were to switch to only communicating via snail mail, do you think your invites to social events would drop? The events probably didn't want you anyways, since they couldn't be bothered to just send you the snail mail via this simple internet service. They're not your real friends.

Stop drinking beer? What are you gonna drink, sand??

... like there aren't any communication alternatives that don't take days, just as speedy and convenient, but less addictive.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#318

Post by tripzilch »

komali2 wrote: post #179
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point I'm making is thus: if you acknowledge that Facebook is a bad influence on your life but you feel stuck with it, here's a low risk strategy for dipping your toes into life without it that you can try out. I don't spend hours managing my social contacts and calendars and I still feel connected with my family and my friends without Facebook. I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patt…

>I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patterns compared to talking with drug addicts about their habit. I feel like if I applied the logic you're using here for that, I could say the same thing about buying food in a store. "It is legal to hunt. There's nothing stopping you from going into the woods, killing a deer, and salting its meat other than your own dependency on the conveniences of…

You could ONLY say the same thing about buying food in a store if, given that all the other arguments were refuted or shown weak, you came up with "but I fear I will lose my shopping buddies".

In addition, unlike supermarkets, FB use is actually addictive, it is very much designed to be that way. This is not a point of discussion any more.

For instance, your era with the nostalgia glasses, sure it sucked (depending where you lived I guess). But FB use was not the thing that changed it. That was mobile phones, and if you lived in that era you know this very well. That's a couple of decades of technology you're skipping over to justify your FB use.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#319

Post by tripzilch »

komali2 wrote: post #227
michaelmrose wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know the internet was a thing in the 90s?

Yes, late 90's, AIM was a thing... if my mom wasn't on the phone, or if my dad didn't need the computer for work. Didn't help me early 90's and certainly didn't help me figure out if my friend was home before I made the bike ride over :P

And then FB came along and suddenly everything was better.

... Except it didn't go like that at all, a zillion other options came along, pagers, mobile phones + texting, email, a whole bunch of instant messaging networks, all of which worked increasingly well for the problems your FB use is supposedly uniquely solving, yet none of was addictive like FB use, a machine learning algorithm targeting flaws in the human psyche / attention-mechanism / dopamine-treadmill to keep them "engaged" and instilling the fear of ostracism if they ever dare to leave.

You can defend convenient channels of communication, but you can't defend the package FB wraps it in.

Sir_Cmpwn said,

> I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patterns compared to talking with drug addicts about their habit.

Scarily so.

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