Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook – You are the Product

lrb.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 321 posts

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#131

Post by lioeters »

vaishaksuresh wrote: post #89
bluGill wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is a much better way for me to share pictures of my kids to all my relatives. Sure I can text that picture to each individually, but some people want to see all pictures in full detail while some want to see just a few. I have no way of knowing who wants to see any individual pictures. My parents want to see nearly all. What about my second cousin who I haven't seen in person in 15 years because she lives so…

>Facebook is a much better way for me to share pictures of my kids to all my relatives Also to Facebook's facial recognition software, without your kids ever agreeing to it and they won't have a way to undo it once they grow up, even if they want to.

This is really worrying, that there's a whole generation growing up whose personal data are being gathered and exploited, without their consent. I'm already upset that my friends have tagged me in numerous photos on FB, giving them more info than I care to. I can only imagine how much worse it would have been if that had been done throughout my childhood and teenage years..

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#132

Post by tonfa »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #122
kronos29296 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replaced it with whatsapp for communication with friends (not fb friends but Friends). I just have a facebook account cuz everybody else has one but it is filled with notifications and messages that I don't reply to. All the people around me know that I don't respond to. Viola, I am free of facebook and don't use it though I still have an account and have never deactivated it. Maybe it will not work for you. P.S HN s…

So you moved from Facebook to Facebook (whatsapp of course is owned by Facebook and gets the equivalent amount of information on you). Did you just want a different interface?

It's much more limited, WA is e2e encrypted so only metadata is accessible.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#133

Post by lloydde »

cortesoft wrote: post #118
olympus wrote: post #31

I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product" idea is not these books. Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the one wh…

I really don't like that phrase; you are NOT the product that facebook creates. Facebook creates a product which is a social media network. You PAY for that product with your data and your eyeballs. Facebook takes your payment, turns around, and sells it to advertisers and others interested in the data. That is not the same as saying you are the product.

It's a pithy saying that gets across that you as the user and the proprietor's interests may not align. We are manipulated with low doses of pleasure, nostalgia, etc. This often involves some level of deception. Sophisticated psychology is used in advertisers. When you pay with money the incentives and transactions are more clear. I'm most aware of this through my children's interactions with entertainment where YouTube and "free" mobile games frustrate me the most.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#134

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

debaserab2 wrote: post #123
Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No matter what I do, several activities and groups I want to be a part of are only advertised and organized on facebook. It's not within my power to change that. It is. You have the power to choose what you want to be a part of. And these groups have more members than yourself - people who you can ask to help you stay up to date on meetings and such.

I'm sorry, but get real. People use technology because it assists and speeds up areas of their life. For many people, facebook far and away is the most convenient way to manage their social life simply because they have the greatest adoption within their social groups. Yes, we could "write someone a letter in the mail instead" or "ask a friend about the events on facebook" but that would defeat the point for the vast…

The point I'm making is thus: if you acknowledge that Facebook is a bad influence on your life but you feel stuck with it, here's a low risk strategy for dipping your toes into life without it that you can try out.

I don't spend hours managing my social contacts and calendars and I still feel connected with my family and my friends without Facebook.

I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patterns compared to talking with drug addicts about their habit.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#135

Post by thanatropism »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #122
kronos29296 wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Replaced it with whatsapp for communication with friends (not fb friends but Friends). I just have a facebook account cuz everybody else has one but it is filled with notifications and messages that I don't reply to. All the people around me know that I don't respond to. Viola, I am free of facebook and don't use it though I still have an account and have never deactivated it. Maybe it will not work for you. P.S HN s…

So you moved from Facebook to Facebook (whatsapp of course is owned by Facebook and gets the equivalent amount of information on you). Did you just want a different interface?

It's a completely different product.

As much as privacy is a legitimate concern, it's also a modern form of angst. So the existentialist mode that says "oh, you either have chicken and wait to die or have the beef and wait to die", which is demodé, gets replaced by "you either have chicken and get massacred by the social media-advertising-mass scale espionage nexus, or..."

(Angst isn't necessarily a bad thing either, but you should know...)

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#136

Post by throwmea56 »

tedunangst wrote: post #117
saimiam wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook solves a real social problem With all due respect, until FB nominally solved this problem, you (I) never even knew this problem existed. Before it became trivial to share pictures with a long lost acquaintance using FB, we got by just fine showing pics to a tiny subset of friends. There was literally no idea in anyone's head that they needed to show pictures of their children to some guy they last spoke to…

Something about people wanting a faster horse.

They didn't. And, as a car obsessive, it was a mistake.

commute times are probably the same (45 minutes walking/tram with a 4~5 mi dense city core, vs 45 in the freeway and a 60 miles of low suburban development) and we don't have the infrastructure for alternatives to travel outside the city.

As to the need for speed itself. I used to like big fancy fast cars.

Then I got a motorcycle. Now cars are... boring.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#137

Post by sjg007 »

parthdesai wrote: post #49
notadoc wrote: post #5

I stopped using Facebook years ago and I could not recommend it more. I found it to be mental pollution at best and and a total waste of time. If you want to 'keep in touch' with people, call or text them. Make an effort to actually interact with the people who matter to you.

So tell me, how do i replace around 5 different group chats i have on messenger which can have anywhere between 5-10 people in each chat? Music events that i go to are exclusively promoted on facebook. How do you recommend i find out about these events so that i can get a cheaper ticket price? if anyone wants to organize a plan that has more than 8 people, facebook groups make it much much easier. I personally hate f…

Just use messenger?

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#138

Post by tucif »

cortesoft wrote: post #118
olympus wrote: post #31

I'm here to fix some ignorance, since the source of the "you are the product" idea is not these books. Metafilter user blue_beetle first put this idea online when he said "If you are not paying for it, you're not the customer; you're the product being sold" in response to the Digg revolt of 2010. The idea apparently existed for a few decades prior regarding TV advertising. I prefer to think blue_beetle was the one wh…

I really don't like that phrase; you are NOT the product that facebook creates. Facebook creates a product which is a social media network. You PAY for that product with your data and your eyeballs. Facebook takes your payment, turns around, and sells it to advertisers and others interested in the data. That is not the same as saying you are the product.

"you are NOT the product that facebook creates"

Right, of course.

But I believe the point here is you are, in terms of the sum of your data and your attention, the product facebook sells

You don't explicitly and consciously pay with your data and attention in exchange for a social networking service, you are tricked into a "free" service that you implicitly pay with your data and attention.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#139

Post by yawz »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #114
paulcole wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many handwritten letters do you send?

I never said handwritten. I send printed letters every month or two.

Why would you print a typed letter and send it by mail instead of e-mailing? Waste of resources, if you ask me, and pretty expensive depending on the country you're sending it to. Good for USPS, though.

A typed letter is not more personal than e-mail, I'm afraid.

Re: Facebook – You are the Product

#140

Post by compiler-guy »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #134
debaserab2 wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but get real. People use technology because it assists and speeds up areas of their life. For many people, facebook far and away is the most convenient way to manage their social life simply because they have the greatest adoption within their social groups. Yes, we could "write someone a letter in the mail instead" or "ask a friend about the events on facebook" but that would defeat the point for the vast…

The point I'm making is thus: if you acknowledge that Facebook is a bad influence on your life but you feel stuck with it, here's a low risk strategy for dipping your toes into life without it that you can try out. I don't spend hours managing my social contacts and calendars and I still feel connected with my family and my friends without Facebook. I'd like to point out that this thread has depressingly similar patt…

I joined facebook less than six months ago. I know quite well what life is like without it. My social life is quite a bit better now than it was before. And yes, I really did try.

Although I hate, hate, hate certain parts of it, there is absolutely zero doubt that it has been beneficial on balance.

Post reply on HN