Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council • Hacker News Board

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#361

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #277

jacquesm wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I honestly do not think you are having a healthy dialogue or coming to terms with your own inherent biases yourself. Since you so clearly perceive those would you mind exposing them? > My own two-cents are that left-wing violence and anger is partly to blame for both his rise and the deeper polarisation we are now seeing since it enabled the alt-right to play the victim and fight a war of optics [0]. That does not…

> frankly, I have a hard time coming to terms with > people self describing as 'moderates' who voted > for Trump, that is some kind of cognitive dissonance. > Trump is about as far away from moderate as it gets. That's not what I'm arguing so I don't expect you to come to terms with that. You cannot be moderate and vote for Trump. I do think you can be moderate and point out that there are certain tactics used by the…

I refuse to be squelched because some Neo Nazi could use my words against me. In fact, I wish them good luck with that, I sincerely doubt you could do that and get away with it without some pretty extreme mental contortions.

The instances you quote have nothing whatsoever to do with debating this in a facts and reason based way on an internet forum.

If people are concerned with their kids getting wounded when attending mass rallies of whatever plumage then it is time to spread the word that whenever you assemble a mob, whether it is the 'good guys' or the 'bad guys' does not matter, the mob is its own enemy when panicked and when two mobs encounter each other violence is the predictable outcome.

That idiots then use this to incite further violence is an obvious conclusion without much weight in practice.

Each side will do what they can to victimize themselves and lay blame with their opposition, it has been so since the first man picked up a stick to wage war on his neighbors.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#362

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #335

leereeves wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Those displaced people may never have a job again. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since 2001, and excluding 2000-2001, the lowest level since 1969. https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=z1ebjpgk2654c1_...

And next, McD's and Carls' are planning to do away with the counter staff. Banks automating tellers completely. Some 30 millions of Americans out of a job, at the lowest levels. What then? Automation is exploding at a dizzying rate for a decade now. Our ability to accommodate will be exceeded soon. Further, that graph looks like what happens when people fall off the employment rolls - they quit looking for a job and…

Don't forget self driving vehicles. That will be a huge change.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#363

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

leesalminen wrote: post #317

freehunter wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And nazis aren't representative of Trump or his supporters. It’s actually not clear if this is the case. It took three days and a ton of media pressure to get Trump to say he condemns Nazis, and then he immediately said that he only made the statement because “bad people” in the media forced him to. A very logical conclusion is that Trump actually does support Nazis.

I'm not sure I agree that is a logical conclusion. I think it's just as possible that not all facts were available on Saturday afternoon. Once the facts were available on Monday, the President made a definitive statement. Also, since when did days become inclusive? I count 2 days (48 hours) between noon Saturday and noon Monday. Another media concoction.

Check the past and see how long it usually took Trump to make incredibly strong statements when it suited him politically. Including the denouncing of events that never actually happened...

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#364

Post by jacquesm » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 5:40 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #348

leesalminen wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The lunatic with a rifle is not representative of Sanders or his supporters And nazis aren't representative of Trump or his supporters. To say otherwise would insinuate that _half the country_ are nazis.

> And nazis aren't representative of Trump or his supporters. Putting aside the issue of his supporters, a charitable reading of Trump (whose true beliefs are well-concealed by ineloquence and constant displays of self-contradiction and dishonesty) would be that authoritarianism, nationalism, xenophobia, and many other fascist traits resonate strongly with him and he therefore feels some unconscious reluctance to cri…

> At some point the question of whether Trump is an amoral, dangerous idiot or an evil, dangerous idiot starts to feel a little academic.

That's precisely it. There is a line where incompetence becomes malice but once you're far enough across the line it no longer matters where the line itself is.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#365

Post by RandVal30142 » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 6:07 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #325

heartbreak wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

White supremacists came to my city and killed a woman 4 blocks up the street from my house, and the President's message was "there was violence on all sides". Only one side came to Charlottesville and killed someone. Only one side came to Charlottesville and chanted "Blood and Soil" while holding 200 torches in front of the Rotunda. Trump explicitly refused to acknowledge white supremacists when asked about it. The q…

He's trying to calm people down and save lives. The newsies want to have Trump provoke a fight. E.g., if Trump denounces some group, then opposing groups will be more motivated to attack with violence. You can't see this? And the dirty dog newsies were trying to get Trump to provoke fights. Then some people would die, and the newsies would get more headlines. Look fellow citizen: We are a free country. You get to bel…

>He's trying to calm people down and save lives.

Just today Trump retweeted an image of a train running down a CNN reporter. The guy is a fascist lunatic who constantly eggs on his base into violence.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#366

Post by RandVal30142 » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

graycat wrote: post #312

sanderjd wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so confusing to me. Most of the stuff I see in the news that you are referring to as "made-up, cooked-up, stirred-up", etc., is stuff you can see video of. It's clear, from video, that there was a gathering of white supremacists, which became violent and resulted in deaths. It's clear, from video, that the President's response to this was weasely equivocation. It's clear, from primary sources like Twitter, th…

> It's clear, from video, that the President's response to this was weasely equivocation. No, his response was terrific, good leadership, presidential, calm the violence. Your conclusion "weasely equivocation" was JUST from newsie GOSSIP, JUST as I wrote. It was just GOSSIP. You've been had. Why? The newsies wanted Trump to accept their dictation of what should be in his speech. Then (1) Trump looks like an obedient…

>Bluntly the newsies want violence, dead people

The Nazis do. This is why they stabbed people in Seattle, this is why they called it a war, this is why one of them ran down civil demonstrators.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#367

Post by lhnz » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 6:10 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #361

lhnz wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> frankly, I have a hard time coming to terms with > people self describing as 'moderates' who voted > for Trump, that is some kind of cognitive dissonance. > Trump is about as far away from moderate as it gets. That's not what I'm arguing so I don't expect you to come to terms with that. You cannot be moderate and vote for Trump. I do think you can be moderate and point out that there are certain tactics used by the…

I refuse to be squelched because some Neo Nazi could use my words against me. In fact, I wish them good luck with that, I sincerely doubt you could do that and get away with it without some pretty extreme mental contortions. The instances you quote have nothing whatsoever to do with debating this in a facts and reason based way on an internet forum. If people are concerned with their kids getting wounded when attendi…

  > I refuse to be squelched because some
  > Neo Nazi could use my words against me.

You misunderstand again. I said that violent or smearing actions done for sound moral reasons can and are used to publicise and win support for the alt-right cause.

While you might not care about your own personal risk, as a citizen of the world you should care about having your actions used to create political material that radicalises people towards the alt-right cause as this threatens people other than you.

It doesn't matter whether they are idiots or not, it matters whether bad players have an easy or hard time making their case and recruiting supporters. Make it difficult, not easy!

  > The instances you quote have nothing
  > whatsoever to do with debating this
  > in a facts and reason based way on an internet forum.

I fundamentally disagree. They demonstrate the mechanism by which the alt-right grew their support so quickly. This is important to the argument at hand and since you can't seem to see this and I don't have any more source material to counter your very strong opinions with, I don't think there's any point in arguing around it any further.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#368

Post by RandVal30142 » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 6:49 PM UTC

superobserver wrote: post #211

jameskegel wrote: post #121

Nothing productive is happening in these comments. Admin should intervene.

Lots of comments condemning Trump's condemnation of (the Nazi collaborator) Soros funded Antifa & BLM and white supremacists. I wonder who is responsible for the curiously pseudo-liberal turn in the comments here. Anyway, Merk, Intel, and so on exemplify all that is wrong with the fringe in politics that seeks to use violence as a means to an end. Anyone with any sense can see this for what it is, however, and no one…

... what?

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#369

Post by sctb » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 7:13 PM UTC

horusthecat wrote: post #165

StevePerkins wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to bring in some unspecified crimes of the left I realize that a large portion of young social media posters have already forgotten about this. Probably because John Oliver doesn't talk about it, and that's often their primary source of news analysis. But the Majority Whip for the U.S. Congress is STILL in recovery from a mass shooting over two months ago, by a deranged left-wing activist. In Dallas last year, 5 po…

lol "both sides do it". face it, anime nazi gamers get beat up by not just jocks but also skinny vegans now

Please comment civilly and substantively here or not at all.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#370

Post by talmand » Tue, Aug 15, 2017, 7:14 PM UTC

freehunter wrote: post #337

talmand wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because the Democrats altered their message doesn't mean that the Republicans had to have changed in response.

You're right, it doesn't mean they had to. But they did. The Civil War was fought to abolish slavery, basically a civil rights argument. It was fought and won by the Republicans. Where do the Republicans stand on civil rights issues today? Would Republicans fight a war to protect gay marriage? Would they fight a war to keep businesses from hiring illegal immigrants and paying them pennies on the dollar while working…

That's a nice speech, but I have not claimed that they have not changed positions over the years. I am disagreeing with the notion of the "switch" that supposedly happened in response to the Democrats changing some of their positions.

Both parties have altered their message and platform over the years for various reasons.