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Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

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Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#61

Post by jacquesm »

wildmusings wrote: post #47
w_t_payne wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is violence on all sides ... however, only one side appears to have the tacit approval of POTUS. I think we can safely assume that he already (and quite rightly) disapproves of left wing violence -- but a lot of us remain unconvinced by his seemingly forced and totally unconvincing denunciations of violence committed by those who also vocally support him and claim to act in his name. WE need to condemn violence…

Why don't we demand the same disavowal of left wing radical groups like Antifa from Democratic politicians. There is countless footage of peaceful right-wing protesters getting beat, fire bombed, etc. at Berkeley and elsewhere.

So, what's your position then regarding:

- BLM

- Antifa

- the 'alt right'

- the Neo Nazis / white supremacy groups

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#63

Post by torkins »

wildmusings wrote: post #47
w_t_payne wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is violence on all sides ... however, only one side appears to have the tacit approval of POTUS. I think we can safely assume that he already (and quite rightly) disapproves of left wing violence -- but a lot of us remain unconvinced by his seemingly forced and totally unconvincing denunciations of violence committed by those who also vocally support him and claim to act in his name. WE need to condemn violence…

Why don't we demand the same disavowal of left wing radical groups like Antifa from Democratic politicians. There is countless footage of peaceful right-wing protesters getting beat, fire bombed, etc. at Berkeley and elsewhere.

If don't you listen, you don't hear:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-ann-coult...

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/elizabeth-warren-to-berkeley-pro...

re: Scalise Shooting: In a statement, Senator Sanders wrote that he had been “informed that the alleged shooter at the Republican baseball practice is someone who apparently volunteered on my presidential campaign.” He went on to say: “I am sickened by this despicable act. Let me be as clear as I can be. Violence of any kind is unacceptable in our society and I condemn this action in the strongest possible terms.” https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/scalise...

edit: and Obama on the BLM shooting in Dallas rightly called it a racist hate crime http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/obama-dallas-police-sh...

That's my 5 minutes of doing your research for you. High ranking Democrat politicians don't tolerate heckler's veto, much less violence. Republicans are so cowed by losing support from their radicals that they can barely bring themselves to speak up against them. Charlottesville is notable in that its pretty much just Trump who failed to speak up.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#64

Post by humanrebar »

pavlov wrote: post #48
bitL wrote: post #12

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -- Abraham Lincoln Pretty worrying to observe the polarization in the US where IMO both left and right are full of extremist views and moderates have no audible voice.

I don't understand the claim that moderates have no voice in the United States. I'm not American, but have spent quite a lot of time in the country. From my point of view, most of the media is moderate left -- and they have a very loud voice indeed. The extreme left exists but has very little visibility compared to France, for example. (That is convenient for right-wing press like Breitbart, because it lets them pain…

> A few people like Senator Jeff Flake are a counterexample that shows what the American right could be...

I think you're understating how much of the American right dislikes Trump. Actual conservatives supported Cruz and Rubio (both of whom have been very consistently critical of Trump's shenanigans). Ben Sasse and Rand Paul are also very vocal.

In print, National Review, The Federalist, Commentary, and similar news organizations have been against Trump since the Republican primary, not in small part to his playing footsie with racists.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#65

Post by fastball »

croon wrote: post #29
williamgb wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The right are mostly moderates too, no?

The right ran 200 yards further right. As much as I hate Reagan, that guy wouldn't recognize the current GOP. There are barely any moderate republicans left. The current GOP is defunding everything from the state department, EPA to education. Meanwhile the democrats (outside of Sanders who's a self-defined independent, and Warren) are afraid to even suggest universal healthcare because it would be too left-leaning. T…

If a significant portion of the US population doesn't want Universal Healthcare, then it is too left leaning. Just because many European countries have adopted a policy doesn't mean the US should, especially if the populace disagrees.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#66

Post by yardie »

mantas wrote: post #43
croon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, mostly just the right. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-pol... http://news.wgbh.org/2017/03/15/politics-government/major-ne...

Looking from across the pond, the left seem to have went full bananas. The identity politics and pushing "undocumented" migrants angle would be quite extreme in most of Europe. BLM look ridiculous too. While the right seem to be business as usual. Much more right than Euro right, but that's it.

> the left seem to have went full bananas... While the right seem to be business as usual.

Clicks profile, and understands the statement. Sorry mate, but Eastern euro right is considered extreme compared to western euro right. To you this may seem business as usual.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#67

Post by croon »

mantas wrote: post #43
croon wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope, mostly just the right. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-pol... http://news.wgbh.org/2017/03/15/politics-government/major-ne...

Looking from across the pond, the left seem to have went full bananas. The identity politics and pushing "undocumented" migrants angle would be quite extreme in most of Europe. BLM look ridiculous too. While the right seem to be business as usual. Much more right than Euro right, but that's it.

> The identity politics and pushing "undocumented" migrants angle

Could you elaborate on this "going bananas"?

> While the right seem to be business as usual.

* Pushing through Gorsuch using nuclear option

* Trying to deprive 10s of millions of people of healthcare multiple times without even publicly showing the proposed bill(s)

* Banning cameras and reporters from briefings

* Electing a GOP congressman one DAY AFTER assaulting a reporter, on live tape.

* The president contradicting generals and trying to incite wars over twitter, and the GOP majority congress and senate letting it slide. Time after time, after time.

* etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

You're either trolling or your calibration for "business as usual" is sincerely fucked up.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#68

Post by humanrebar »

jacquesm wrote: post #58
humanrebar wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think the polarization of politics contributes to violence, it seems like a fair point. Honestly, it's probably too soon to be making political points. But then people are looking for political wins in the aftermath (resignations and shunning I guess?), so I don't see how that sort of thing is on the table. Seems like uneven expectations about what decent people should do in the face of tragedy.

> If you think the polarization of politics contributes to violence, it seems like a fair point. I'm sure it does. Now, who exactly is doing the polarizing here? > Honestly, it's probably too soon to be making political points. On the contrary, it is probably way too late. Now the question is how much damage will be done before the landslide is arrested. My sense of that: all bets are off. > But then people are looki…

> Giving up on the administration is not a political win, it is damage control.

I gave up on Trump in the winter of 2015/2016. I'm way ahead of you there.

I'm just saying people have valid thoughts (polarization in general leads to t his) that might be considered premature. But if we're going to be evenhanded, angry left-wing people need to honor a cool off period for a while.

Keep in mind that moderates who dislike Trump from the start can fairly blame left-wing shenanigans, at least partly, for the rise of Trump. Lumping them in with racists and downvoting them isn't healthy dialogue.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#69

Post by croon »

pavlov wrote: post #48
bitL wrote: post #12

"A house divided against itself cannot stand." -- Abraham Lincoln Pretty worrying to observe the polarization in the US where IMO both left and right are full of extremist views and moderates have no audible voice.

I don't understand the claim that moderates have no voice in the United States. I'm not American, but have spent quite a lot of time in the country. From my point of view, most of the media is moderate left -- and they have a very loud voice indeed. The extreme left exists but has very little visibility compared to France, for example. (That is convenient for right-wing press like Breitbart, because it lets them pain…

You are correct. The problem is that the current president and the non-quiet part of the GOP wants to paint the factual moderate news media (or "MSM") as a liberal conspiracy.

Re: Intel CEO leaves American Manufacturing Council

#70

Post by zimpenfish »

jacquesm wrote: post #30
ikeyany wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But Trump has been bedfellows with white supremacists since day one. All of a sudden there are "optical disadvantages" of being closer to him?

> But Trump has been bedfellows with white supremacists since day one. Yes, but there were people who thought that once he became president his true nature would come out and things would be better and that he was merely using these people as a tool to get elected. Now, he probably did use them as a tool to get elected but at the same time I suspect that his real sympathies lie with them rather than with the groups t…

> once he became president his true nature would come out

NARRATOR: "It did."

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