Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A note on programmer salaries

stephaniehurlburt.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 230 posts

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#181

Post by taeric »

meric wrote: post #67
taeric wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a simplistic view that might help you feel good about taking advantage of someone, it is ridiculously easily abused. And, quite frankly, scares me if I think about it for too long. I don't want a society where there are people left behind simply because they did not make a job out of making more money. Nor do I want a society where services performed by folks leads to a massive wealth imbalance in workf…

virtue signaling is high, but actual virtue is punished Hypocrisy?

I worded it wrong. I meant the incentives are high for the signaling, but actually inverted for the acts.

My example was supposed to be that you are rewarded for looking fair, but it would actually be detrimental to be so.

Deception and hypocrisy, I think, are related to this, but I feel they are a little different, too. Don't know if I can explain why. So perhaps I'm just wrong on that feeling?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#182

Post by taeric »

chrisco255 wrote: post #88
taeric wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this is a simplistic view that might help you feel good about taking advantage of someone, it is ridiculously easily abused. And, quite frankly, scares me if I think about it for too long. I don't want a society where there are people left behind simply because they did not make a job out of making more money. Nor do I want a society where services performed by folks leads to a massive wealth imbalance in workf…

No different than shopping for a car and buying the first one you see. You HAVE to shop around for your career. Holy crap, it's the biggest investment of your life. If you don't care, it's nobody's job to care for you, and it shouldn't be. ALWAYS shop around or don't complain when you find out you're being paid below market.

My main problem with this is it is victim blaming, at large. And again, leads to situations such as women and minority pay being significantly lower for no good reason.

At an individual level, it is good actionable advice. At a societal level, it really is just victim blaming. And it is hard to day where the line is between those views.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#183

Post by JoeAltmaier »

i_dont_know_ wrote: post #12

The salaries are much lower compared to the large sales contracts because the company is compensating you for uncertainty. If you stick with a company, you're guaranteed whatever your salary is even if the company doesn't make any sales. If they're doing really well in terms of sales and contracts, then they pocket the difference, but if they're not, you pocket the loss. I personally agree with the author that it's w…

Every contracting company I worked for, had me full-time on projects. If they didn't have work for everybody, they laid off. They covered their 'risk' that way. Its a hoax that they took 25% (or more) to cover 'risk. It was to cover their vacation home payments.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#184

Post by baby »

taeric wrote: post #25
sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

I mean, it's pretty simple, but it took a long time to internalize: If you don't have anyone else making you an offer, then you're worth that amount. In this case, you were worth $42k and $56k respectively. If you'd shopped around, you'd have been worth more. But you didn't, so you weren't. That's not a bad thing, either. Security is nice, and interviews are a pain. But it really is that simple. If you don't like you…

While this is a simplistic view that might help you feel good about taking advantage of someone, it is ridiculously easily abused. And, quite frankly, scares me if I think about it for too long. I don't want a society where there are people left behind simply because they did not make a job out of making more money. Nor do I want a society where services performed by folks leads to a massive wealth imbalance in workf…

I think that's related to the tipping culture in the US. Employers can pay their employees shit, and almost everyone is happy with that because it makes things cheaper in general.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#185

Post by Swinx43 »

zerr wrote: post #176
mstade wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way you find a nice place to live in London for £600, especially not a place of your own. If anything, you might find a room somewhere, but it's probably not going to be nice and it's likely not even going to be in London. If you commute by long distance rail for at least an hour, an hour and a half maybe, to some small town way outside of London maybe you'll find something at that cost – but surely not in London…

I'm talking more about Ilford, Barking, Wembley, etc...

Sorry but those are definitely not what counts as nice areas in London. I also doubt you would find something for £600 in some of those areas today.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#186

Post by DanBC »

zerr wrote: post #176
mstade wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No way you find a nice place to live in London for £600, especially not a place of your own. If anything, you might find a room somewhere, but it's probably not going to be nice and it's likely not even going to be in London. If you commute by long distance rail for at least an hour, an hour and a half maybe, to some small town way outside of London maybe you'll find something at that cost – but surely not in London…

I'm talking more about Ilford, Barking, Wembley, etc...

The LHA rate for Brent is about £900 for a single bed flat.

https://www.brent.gov.uk/media/169942/Local-Housing-Allowanc...

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#187

Post by devdad »

21 wrote: post #175
neoberg wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come to Sofia. No, I'm serious. Of course Bulgaria is not the best country in Europe but it's pretty great for software devs. Salaries for Sr. Devs are around 3000-3500 euro band -which is more than the president here- and cost of living is the half of the Berlin. Also, the city has a vibrant software scene.

Is criminality under control now? Some years ago I remember stories about assasinations, guns & stuff.

Sounds like stories found in all countries?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#188

Post by ingenuous2 »

shmerl wrote: post #102
jstanley wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you think you're not being paid fairly, do something about it (e.g. demand more, or quit and do something else for money). If you can't get more, you're not being exploited. You're taking advantage of the best option available to you.

I hope you recognize, that the statement that everyone is always paid fairly is false. Thinking otherwise borders on some kind of serious ethical blindness.

Where did they make that statement? All I'm hearing GP say is if the only way to know your worth to the market is to test it. There is no other way to measure what your employment is worth.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#189

Post by ingenuous2 »

maccard wrote: post #113
purple-again wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

$120k is San Fran could easily be a worse quality of life than $40k in Central America (too broad to say for certain).

I've seen this sentiment posted before and it's pretty much untrue. At 120k/year, even spending 4K/month on rent, your leftover pay is still more than my gross salary. I know SF is expensive, but if you can't have a nice QOL on a the leftovers of a 120k salary, your location isn't the problem.

$120k in SF probably amounts to take home just under $6k/mo. $4k goes to rent, so you have $2k for everything else.

That's not a great QOL. For comparison, I ran the Mexico City / SF cost of living on Numbeo[0]. $38k in Mexico City would need to be $140k in SF for comparable quality of life.

(side note -- this COL calculator is super neat! anyone have any evidence of the accuracy?)

[0] https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#190

Post by expertentipp »

neoberg wrote: post #174
Swinx43 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest which European tech hub did you move to? Berlin? I am currently looking at making a move and would love to hear some first hand experience of the tech hubs in Europe that people have moved to.

Come to Sofia. No, I'm serious. Of course Bulgaria is not the best country in Europe but it's pretty great for software devs. Salaries for Sr. Devs are around 3000-3500 euro band -which is more than the president here- and cost of living is the half of the Berlin. Also, the city has a vibrant software scene.

Once, while living in Germany, I applied for a position in an outsourcing center of a major American IT company in Sofia. The Bulgarian HR lady repeatedly, explicitly and implicitly asked "are you sure you know what you are doing?!". Bulgaria is tough stuff mate.
Post reply on HN