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A note on programmer salaries

stephaniehurlburt.com

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Re: A note on programmer salaries

#101

Post by taway_1212 »

cjhanks wrote: post #42
retrac98 wrote: post #24

It seems like these kinds of salaries only really exist for full time employees in the US. As a software architect (engineer team size ~100) in the UK I was only making £65k. I could have shopped around and got more, much more if I went to London but still nothing like I read about in the US. I ended up leaving full time employment for contracting/consulting.

Those type of salaries only really exist in San Francisco bay. The marketplace is actually pretty competitive for such well paying jobs. But keep in mind - $100k SFBay is approximately $65k for most of the rest of the country. The US Dollar holds significantly different value in different parts of the country.

Not really, since, if you take a mortgage to buy a house in SF/SV, you may have as much discretionary income left as someone in say, Alabama, BUT you're slowly building a $1m+ asset (that you'll be able to sell once the mortgage is paid). So, $100k is only comparable to $65k in most of the rest of the country when you're renting.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#102

Post by shmerl »

jstanley wrote: post #94
shmerl wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the reason why, yet you're paid table scraps -- it's because that's what you're worth. That doesn't make any sense and sounds like everyone is always paid fairly. That's far from true.

If you think you're not being paid fairly, do something about it (e.g. demand more, or quit and do something else for money). If you can't get more, you're not being exploited. You're taking advantage of the best option available to you.

I hope you recognize, that the statement that everyone is always paid fairly is false. Thinking otherwise borders on some kind of serious ethical blindness.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#103

Post by jacalata »

purple-again wrote: post #64
jacalata wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so Steve jobs was worth $1/year.

Sigh. In what version of the world do you believe Steve Jobs ever went a year of making $1? Even if his tax return showed income of $1 for that year (it never did) the net worth of his assets increased significantly during the year and the value of that would be captured eventually.

I don't, but people who believe one silly thing often believe others so I thought you might. Let's go with some other examples: open source software. Breastfeeding. Ooh, how about literally every person in America under 10 years old? They're all worthless and society wouldn't be negatively affected if they disappeared out of existence? After all, close enough to 0 of them are being paid by anyone.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#104

Post by daxfohl »

I made my best money about 5 years after graduating. Became a specialist at a very specific technology, got ~$150/hr for a little over a year. Of course Econ 101 kicked in and supply for that skill increased and so salary went down. Since then just trying to hang on. Consulting fees continually harder to justify vs low-bidders and contracts harder to come by. 15 years later gave that up for corporate. Not doing bad but also not making 300K/yr. Though I do have good benefits now. Anyway hopefully Stephanie does well.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#105

Post by ralfd »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #2

I mean, it's pretty simple, but it took a long time to internalize: If you don't have anyone else making you an offer, then you're worth that amount. In this case, you were worth $42k and $56k respectively. If you'd shopped around, you'd have been worth more. But you didn't, so you weren't. That's not a bad thing, either. Security is nice, and interviews are a pain. But it really is that simple. If you don't like you…

> Coworker was building a new house, and when it came to the numbers it was let loose that it was going to cost about $700K. This didn't seem like much

Not much? I hate you Silicon Valley!

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#106

Post by bousaid »

ddosasaurus wrote: post #27

Short story: I started out very hard on myself and pushed myself 24/7 to be the best I can be. My first job was $65k/yr, raised to $75k/yr at the end of the first year. I had a strong suspicion I was worth more, but I took a strategic approach to finding out. A year later I took an offer at $140k/yr. A year and a half later I accepted $195k/yr ($165k base + $30k bonus). In my current state I'm stuck somewhere between…

Go work for Microsoft or Amazon?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#107

Post by bachaco »

seedle12 wrote: post #70

I'm an Android dev w/ Angular 2 and web app dev skills in . the UK.. I'm not even remotely scratching the surface of what engineers are being paid in the US. I'm making the transition to contracting.. working 12 - 14 hours permanently for peanuts is ridiculous.

May I ask how much are you making?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#108

Post by retrac98 »

wst_ wrote: post #91
retrac98 wrote: post #24

It seems like these kinds of salaries only really exist for full time employees in the US. As a software architect (engineer team size ~100) in the UK I was only making £65k. I could have shopped around and got more, much more if I went to London but still nothing like I read about in the US. I ended up leaving full time employment for contracting/consulting.

I can only assume you earn much more as a contractor. Yet I always try to see through different angles. Are there any drawbacks of being a contractor, in comparison to full time employee?

Yes, much more is accurate. That said, it's not all roses.

Drawbacks are:

- Lack of job security

- Loneliness (always an outsider)

- More responsibilities (pension, taxes, vat returns, chasing invoices, legal etc.) It all gets pretty draining

- No sick pay

- Contract writing/negotiation

- You often end up working longer hours to get things done and keep people happy

- Getting a mortgage or loan in the UK is generally more difficult if self employed, even if you're making bank.

The other thing I'd add is that to be a good contractor/consultant you need to have a well rounded skillset that extends far beyond the technical. The ability to make any sort of impact at a larger business where management are too fond of meetings, marketing are completely change-averse and engineering just want to see you fail has very little to do with your ability to engineer software. You need to get decisions made, win confidence and support and integrate with teams very quickly - it can take you away from doing what you love sometimes.

Basically, I'm glad to have the money right now but I'm not sure i'll do this forever. The comfort/security of normal employment is sorely tempting.

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#109

Post by poooogles »

gazarullz wrote: post #99
kayoone wrote: post #60

By looking at her Linkedin, it is easy to see what companies she is talking about, some big names up there. I think her viewpoint is a bit naive though. Of course a company will pay market rate in a european city if that is what it takes to be competitive. The fact that they pay their US employees more might create tensions inside the company but in the end is just down to the fact that the market there is completely…

Is it Berlin you've ended up into ?

If cost of living stayed the same that rules out London.

Past that it's normally Berlin, Paris or Barcelona?

Re: A note on programmer salaries

#110

Post by drakonka »

retube wrote: post #14

> I could do this myself without him. It didn't feel right You may be about to learn a hard lesson. Anyone can do a job. Creating a job is hard. Good luck

She is now doing just that. Check out some of her work, she has started a company creating a texture compressor and speaks/runs workshops pretty regularly. I am not a graphics programmer but find some of the material she shares really interesting.
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