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Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

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Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#291

Post by zimpenfish »

sushisource wrote: post #92
influx wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious if you feel Colin Kaepernick should have been fired and blacklisted for supporting Black Lives Matter? After all, it was only a consequence of free speech from his employers.

"Feel he should have been fired" and "Wouldn't throw a fit if he was fired" are different things. Do I think this guy should have been fired? I dunno. Not sure. I need more context. Am I upset he was fired? No. That's Google's choice, regardless of how good a choice it is or isn't.

> Do I think this guy should have been fired?

It betrayed a spectacular lack of common sense and judgement for someone in a senior[1] role - which is exactly where you'd want those in spades. Also made his working position untenable since a senior role is going to need to get along and interact with many people. Also, also, his utter disregard for evidence and inability to make logical arguments would give me great pause as to his usefulness as a senior engineer.

I'd have fired him first for being an idiot, second for his bullshit "scientism", and third having reprehensible views.

[1] Disclaimer: I don't know if "senior" within Google is the same as "VP" in banks, ie just a defacto title you get after a while rather than a mark of actual competency.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#292

Post by zimpenfish »

macrael wrote: post #90
naturalgradient wrote: post #10

What this whole episode really seems to show is how authoritarianism has crept into our lives and how incredibly difficult it is to resist it even amongst highly educated people. I would wager that none of the people calling for this person to be personally ruined, expelled from society, terminated from their job and forever vilified as an outcast would view themselves as authoritarian. Not the Tweeters shaking with…

I haven't finished this because it is very long, but it is good. Do you believe in the paradox of tolerance? http://tim.dreamwidth.org/2035407.html

Oh, hmm, I hadn't considered the parallels of the various manifestos. Looks good, ta.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#293

Post by zimpenfish »

ambulancechaser wrote: post #48
int_19h wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not the Ex-Google guy with his medium rant about how people would punch him in the face and he would understand. Could you give a link to that rant?

> And as for its impact on you: Do you understand that at this point, I could not in good conscience assign anyone to work with you? I certainly couldn’t assign any women to deal with this, a good number of the people you might have to work with may simply punch you in the face, and even if there were a group of like-minded individuals I could put you with, nobody would be able to collaborate with them. You have just…

I'm not seeing the bit about where he says he'd understand about the people punching him in the face? In fact, he's saying that he wouldn't assign people to work with him for fear of that - which I would take to mean he disagrees with the action.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#294

Post by amazingman »

kamaal wrote: post #273
eco wrote: post #19

> Media outlets like TechCrunch, Gizmodo and Motherboard jumped on board to declare the memo an “Anti-Diversity Manifesto.” It appears that the ideological echo chamber extends beyond Google’s campus. As I look up and see this article flagged on HN (since unflagged). The points and ideas from his memo may be wrong or they may be right (or anywhere in between) but more important than this incident has been the reactio…

>>You don't shut down the conversation and pretend the issues don't exist. This generally happens when ideas presented in the conversation are radical and dangerous to a point the target people in the discussion feel an existential threat. Look at the nature of this discussion. Presented in its simplest form, its a case for a merit based system. The socialist types don't like this, the very fact that merit is being d…

Honestly we don't need this kind of drivel right now, either. The discussion we should have been having this whole time is way more complex than you're making it, and you appear to be oversimplifying on purpose to make a political point. If you are, kindly stop.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#295

Post by slavak »

rbanffy wrote: post #237
oskbor wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even read his text? Please quote the "deeply hurtful" passages

We can start from the implication that it's natural there are less women in the profession because most of them are biologically unsuited to it. Now replace woman with black (or Jew) and see what happens. Do you still think it's OK?

His main point was that MORE of them were biologically UNINTERESTED in it, not that MOST of them were UNSUITED.

And to your point... yes?

If someone said a profession mostly working outside in the desert has less gingers in it because most of them are biologically unsuited for prolonged sun exposure, would you really take offense?

This isn't phrenology we're discussing here. If you're discussing real, tangible biological differences backed while proper scientific research, while taking care to treat people as individuals and avoid generalizing based on the distribution mean, then what's actually the problem here?

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#296

Post by zimpenfish »

koonsolo wrote: post #201
gobugat wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His "theories" have been destroyed for decades. It's always the same old shit. We are tired of it. If you don't even have the decency to document yourself before blurting out such crap, you may not deserve much patience. Remember: this guy lost a job. Discriminations kill and ruin the lives of millions routinely.

According to scientists in the field, his theories are correct. http://quillette.com/2017/08/07/google-memo-four-scientists-... If you read the memo, he is completely against discrimination, including positive discrimination.

I'd be wary of saying the psychologists (especially the EvoPsych dude) are "scientists in the field" because he was quoting biology and they are 100% not biologists. Dr Soh is really the only one qualified to comment here. Also the other three are ... privileged white dudes with track records of being anti-SJW/"snowflake", etc.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#297

Post by tomohawk »

This guys mistake was thinking that his organization was interested in learning. Learning requires admitting you didn't know something or that you were wrong about something. People who are in diversity leadership positions are often dogmatic, true believer types. The last thing they will tolerate is someone trying to tell them that the belief system on which their position is based might be faulty in some way.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#298

Post by zimpenfish »

mrarg wrote: post #185
gobugat wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "You may agree with the manifesto author or not, but his thought were articulate. He provided evidence for his theories and at no point was he needlessly insulting to anyone. " No, no, and no. Asserting that half of humanity is incapable of taking on pressure and responsibility is insulting, and suggesting that his rant was articulate or evidenced shows a serious lack of basic humanity. Strong words, but as I said,…

> Asserting that half of humanity is incapable of taking on pressure and responsibility is insulting [...] That is actually what he is trying extra hard to explain that he is _not_ asserting (if you go read the thing). It's basically what he is spending the first few pages trying to be absolutely clear about. The overlapping normal distribution curves is a very immediate way to visualise it, but an excerpt will have…

Can you not see how Glenn Beck this sounds? "Now I'm not -saying- that Obama is a Muslim; I'm just asking the difficult questions about why people think he is and letting you draw your own conclusions" [from my leading questions and speculation which is designed to funnel you down one path]

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#299

Post by princeb »

brighteyes wrote: post #159
amyjess wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were to tell multiple co-workers to their face that they are inferior to me, I would be fired. This guy told a very large amount of his co-workers that they're inferior to him, and he posted it all over the Internet for everyone to see. You'd be hard pressed to find a company where leveling personal attacks against your co-workers isn't a fireable offense. Freedom of speech isn't the same thing as freedom from t…

> This guy told a very large amount of his co-workers that they're inferior to him That would be very disturbing, but that's not what's written in the document. Saying that there are average differences between groups, and that therefore people should be treated as individuals, is not at all like saying that all individuals in one group are inferior to another.

> people should be treated as individuals

thankfully, google hires individuals as individuals, and google employees are exceptional and meet the requirements of the job they are hired for, in spite of the average of their community, and in spite of the supposed problems of diversity programs.

Re: Google Can't Seem to Tolerate Diversity

#300

Post by apta »

BertPhoo wrote: post #199
jorgemf wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish there were more people like you. People able to have a better critical reading and don't fall quickly in easy offenses that might not even exists.

"Not bad for a girl"

Did you stop beating your wife?
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