Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#281

Post by paulsutter » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

cosinetau wrote: post #232

paulsutter wrote: post #202

Use of credit cards in the US really took off in 1980 when interest rates were deregulated[1], credit cards were then heavily promoted. I remember at that time, to use a credit card in a grocery store had a social stigma. But now, many people here rarely use cash. What are the credit card interest rates in Germany? (In the US credit card interest rates can be 20-30%). Maybe there's less incentive to promote use of ca…

What was the social stigma of using a credit card at a grocery store? I think I kinda remember some remnants of that when I got my first card and started using it to pay for everyday/trivial purchases. In fact, I remember the real reason for the wait in the line was were most folks taking time to write cheques. It was a lot like waiting for someone to count bus fare on the coinop.

There was a time when furniture stores, appliance stores, etc, provided credit directly. You could buy items from the store and make payments over time. Credit cards were seen as a generalized way to make these purchases, if you go far enough back in time.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#282

Post by calvinbhai » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:50 PM UTC

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

I wonder how this is true "people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card".

In the US, I always wish they had non-cash lanes at grocery stores (especially at Costco, Walmart) because paying cash is almost always a super slow process.

Do prices and taxes in Germany for stuff usually end up in whole numbers? I think in that case it's easy to calculate total owed and be ready with the exact amount of cash.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#283

Post by praneshp » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:51 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

At least in the five years that I've been in America, the credit card workflow is almost never like that. It's more like

- Total amt

- (After deciding which card is best) Get card out

- Swipe, but piece of shit card reader complains, so retry. Or insert chip, then the piece of shit card reader makes the same sound for "wait" and "remove", sometimes cauing confusion.

- Wait for piece of shit card reader to show up signature bar (or less commonly the cashier has to print out a receipt and have you sign it)

- Done.

I love credit card rewards though, but I'm not sure if it's a zero-sum game.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#284

Post by pmoriarty » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

hocuspocus wrote: post #136

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As someone who lived two years in Germany a) That's a good joke. From faster to slower: NFC > PIN > signature > cash. b) You should look into the real cost of dealing with cash. EC is stupidly cheap since it's basically the cost of a SEPA direct payment (we're talking 1-2 cents per transaction). Debit card payments can also be pretty cheap in Europe. All those annoying restaurants and small shops that take only cash…

Sorry, but what is "EC" and "SEPA", and what do they have to do with the real cost of dealing with cash?

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#285

Post by guelo » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

tbomb wrote: post #241

guelo wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the workflow with the new chip cards much less convenient to the point that I'm starting to prefer cash or Android Pay if it's available. Even though I lose the 2% cashback bribe.

Which card is that, that takes away the incentive? I use Apple Pay pretty frequently and still get my cashback rate, or double points incentives on the cards that I use.

You're right, I worded that poorly. I meant only for when I pay with cash I lose the 2%.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#286

Post by thirdsun » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

arvidkahl wrote: post #14

Most brick & mortar stores in Germany will not offer debit card payments under 10 Euros, since the fees they have to pay are extremely high. Most clerks will frown upon small card payments for that reason, and sometimes outright decline the payment, even if that means no purchase happening. Credit cards are rarely accepted in any store but larger ones in malls. Most Germans, and that was pretty spot-on in the article…

> Paypal has taken over German online payments, since it can be linked with a bank account.

Very true. Whenever payment processors are discussed around here someone will inevitably mention how glad they are that they could finally replace Paypal with Stripe, and why would anyone still use Paypal anyway these days? I like Stripe as much as the next guy, but in Germany it‘s absolutely necessary to offer Paypal and Stripe can only act as an additional gateway.

However credit cards are gaining momentum here - the online store of my employer almost sees an equal share between both methods. And then there‘s still about 15-20% of customers who opt for manual SEPA transfer.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#287

Post by laumars » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

101km wrote: post #210

lmm wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Always carry enough cash to get home" - my dad. In London you can't pay for a bus with cash any more.

You can still buy the oyster card with cash however, right? Now try catching a bus late at night after the shops close - what a silly system.

> You can still buy the oyster card with cash however, right?

You don't need to buy an Oyster card as contactless bank cards work on Oyster systems as well.

> Now try catching a bus late at night after the shops close - what a silly system.

London is a 24 hour city. :P

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#288

Post by mtmail » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:52 PM UTC

IanCal wrote: post #245

pascalxus wrote: post #239

The question isn't why germans pay cash. the question is, why would you do it any other way?? I'll tell you why. In other countries we allow credit card companies to tax the masses. By creating regulations that prevent merchants from charging a different price for cash vs credit, you effectively force everyone to pay 2.5% extra for every purchase. That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay…

Capped at 0.2% now aren't they?

Yes, thanks to the European Union starting 2016.

"The new regulation will cap interchange fees at 0.2% of the transaction value for Visa and MasterCard consumer debit cards and at 0.3% for Visa and MasterCard consumer credit cards effective as of December 2015." https://www.adyen.com/blog/eu-interchange-fees-cap

That put a lot of credit card schemes (get fly miles or points or cashback for each purchase) in trouble and they had to change their offers. My credit card company wrote back then I can now only earn status miles with their silver card now, at 99 Euro/year cost.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#289

Post by koolba » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:53 PM UTC

praneshp wrote: post #283

codegeek wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

At least in the five years that I've been in America, the credit card workflow is almost never like that. It's more like - Total amt - (After deciding which card is best) Get card out - Swipe, but piece of shit card reader complains, so retry. Or insert chip, then the piece of shit card reader makes the same sound for "wait" and "remove", sometimes cauing confusion. - Wait for piece of shit card reader to show up sig…

You missed the step where the digital pen on a string doesn't work to sign the touch pad followed by using your finger.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#290

Post by davemp » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:55 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

I've found cash to be much faster and more pleasent than card for eating out.

- Waiter brings check

- Leave cost + tip

- Leave

If you pay with card that's an extra trip from the waiter which can take a pretty long time.