Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#231

Post by DanielleMolloy » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:19 PM UTC

stupidcar wrote: post #30

I spent a few weeks working in Munich and was surprised when I first went into a supermarket to buy lunch. The payment process was like stepping back in time 20 years in the UK. No self-checkout kiosks, just a single cashier, and a line of people all paying in cash. It worked, but it was a much slower process than was I was used to. I guess the stereotype of German super-efficiency made me assume they would be quick…

I am a German living in the Netherlands right now and find that quite annoying every time I come back to Germany, too. Before NFC I would have agreed that card payments are just much, much slower than cash. Most shops in Germany won't let you pay by card if the total amount is less than 5€, so you would always carry cash around anyway. NFC and self-checkout are quite widely spread in NL; in fact a small supermarket at a university here only has self-checkout systems with NFC.

Often heard (from Germans with some international experience and its point of view) that innovations need around two years to arrive in the heads of Germany. Skepticism towards new ideas tends to impress people more than open-minded consideration of new developments. This may change at the moment as much of the younger generation gains lots of international experience and is exposed to frequent technological developments and innovative start-up culture.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#232

Post by cosinetau » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:19 PM UTC

paulsutter wrote: post #202

Use of credit cards in the US really took off in 1980 when interest rates were deregulated[1], credit cards were then heavily promoted. I remember at that time, to use a credit card in a grocery store had a social stigma. But now, many people here rarely use cash. What are the credit card interest rates in Germany? (In the US credit card interest rates can be 20-30%). Maybe there's less incentive to promote use of ca…

What was the social stigma of using a credit card at a grocery store?

I think I kinda remember some remnants of that when I got my first card and started using it to pay for everyday/trivial purchases. In fact, I remember the real reason for the wait in the line was were most folks taking time to write cheques. It was a lot like waiting for someone to count bus fare on the coinop.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#233

Post by Sleeep » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:20 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #218

Sleeep wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Handling cash is not free either, it also comes with transaction costs.

But it's money spent on my government and not some American companies. Huge difference IMO

No, the companies pay the cost of handling cash as well.

There's the labor costs of handling cash - counting it, moving it, organizing it, accounting for it, making sure there's enough change to run a shift; the cost of storing and transporting it - safes, cash draws, key management, money transport/money transport companies; and the cost of loss due to theft, mistakes, and mismanagement.

I'm not saying that the cost of cash is more than the cost of card, I'm simply saying its not anywhere near free.

https://qz.com/123642/physical-money-costs-americans-more-th...

>But new research from Tufts University aims to highlight the pain points of cash, where digital currency can break in. The use of physical bills costs US consumers, businesses and the government at least $200 billion each year—about $1,739 per household. Here are the main reasons why:

>Small businesses don’t lose much money by operating cash-only. But larger businesses spend a significant amount of money dealing with cash—collecting it, sorting it and getting it to the bank without it being stolen. US businesses lose $40 billion a year to cash theft and loss, about 1% of total revenues.

http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2017/02/02/cashless-coffee-sho...

(There's also a potential to increase sales by accepting card.)

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#234

Post by snakeanus » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

I am glad, there are some serious privacy issues concerning credit and debit cards. Not to mention that bringing a third party into this causes all kinds of issues, such as their ability to block your card at any time or taking a percentage of the money.

I hope that cryptocurrencies replace cards someday.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#235

Post by herbst » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

_up wrote: post #189

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

Another big aspect is, German people like having control over their spending. Checking my Credit Card is unnecessary frustrating. While you have a pretty good overview of how much you are spending if you always get about the same amount from the ATM.

This is the comment I was waiting for the whole thread. I don't want to have to check a huge list of random stupid payments, half of which I can't remember anyway, the other half with obscure names. Just to have a little control and be sure to not be frauded

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#236

Post by acchow » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:21 PM UTC

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

Cash might be faster if you have to do Chip+pin.

In most countries, we just tap to pay with NFC (except America, where this only works with Apple Pay or Google Wallet). This is most definitely faster than cash. You can actually go to any store and time it on real customers.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#237

Post by miguelrochefort » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:22 PM UTC

lower wrote: post #116

lima wrote: post #8

As a German, I disagree. I've had many discussions about the upcoming NFC payment options and the main argument was privacy.

I (German) have never used NFC payments and was curious how that would work with my bank. Turns out they want me to install an app on my phone for this, which is definitely not going to happen.

> Turns out they want me to install an app on my phone for this, which is definitely not going to happen.

Why not?

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#238

Post by pmoriarty » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

Not only that, but you also have to either carry your small coins around so you can use them up or you have to collect them and then redeem them all for bills or deposit them. This is a royal pain. I have so much change lying around the house that I haven't bothered to count and redeem.

On the other hand, if you use credit cards, you would ideally be keeping receipts and then reconciling them to the statements you get from your credit card company to make sure there's no fraud and no errors in billing. Some people have the discipline to do that, but many don't.

With credit cards it's easier to overspend. Not only can you perhaps too easily borrow more than you have in the bank with a credit card, but temporarily giving someone a card that you get back right away or giving them a credit card number doesn't have the same psychological impact as permanently and irrevocably giving someone your hard-earned cash. So people are tempted to spend more when using credit cards.

Finally, there's the issue of being tracked. When you use credit, at the very least the credit card company knows where and when you shop and possibly what you buy. With cash you could have more privacy in this respect.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#239

Post by pascalxus » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:23 PM UTC

The question isn't why germans pay cash. the question is, why would you do it any other way?? I'll tell you why. In other countries we allow credit card companies to tax the masses. By creating regulations that prevent merchants from charging a different price for cash vs credit, you effectively force everyone to pay 2.5% extra for every purchase. That 2.5% goes straight to the credit card companies, even if you pay cash! So, you have no choice but to use a credit card, so you can recover 1.5% on the 2.5% tax your paying.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#240

Post by herbst » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 4:25 PM UTC

intsunny wrote: post #65

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

> 1) CC is slow While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the norm.

I lived in Austria and Switzerland. I never really experienced this. For me this is as rare as faulty credit cards which have the same annoyance levels.

In Austria people often just hand over more and say 'bast scho' (tip). Or otherwise pay a little bigger and take the change. In switzerland it's only the latter and less tipping but again nobody even looks at their own small coins.

Nearly everyone I know just has a glass at home where they throw the small coins in but never would really use them.