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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#391

Post by s73ver »

Cogito wrote: post #266
s73ver wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, but your examples are quite out of context. Read the story about Sarkeesian's thing. Those people were there specifically for harassment. I cannot be upset at her for calling him out, and I cannot be upset that he was banned. As for the other one, you're gonna have to provide proof.

Not that it's worth wading too far into this, but there is no good reason to believe those people were there specifically for harassment. For one, if they were there to harass, you would expect them to have done some harassing. I have seen no examples of that. The only possible thing that could be construed as harassing behaviour was them being there in the first place - and I don't think that's a very high bar to se…

"Not that it's worth wading too far into this, but there is no good reason to believe those people were there specifically for harassment."

Yes, their is. Their behavior, both at the event and their prior behavior online towards her both suggest that is the entire reason for them being there.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#392

Post by specialist »

padobson wrote: post #285
specialist wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very libertarian (puerile) view of free speech. The rest of us understand principles like civility, that your rights stop where mine begin, don't yell "fire!" in a crowded theater, balancing rights and responsibilities, and that hatespeech is a form of assault.

> and that hatespeech is a form of assault Are there any legal precedents upholding this? Being the inciting ring-leader of a violent mob is one thing, but if someone called me a mick for spilling their Guinness, I wouldn't call that an assault

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hate_speech

"Hate speech is speech which attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as race, religion, ethnic origin, sexual orientation, disability, or gender. In the law of some countries, hate speech is described as speech, gesture or conduct, writing, or display which is forbidden because it incites violence or prejudicial action against or by a protected group, or individual on the basis of their membership of the group, or because it disparages or intimidates a protected group, or individual on the basis of their membership of the group."

It times past, I'd just use LMGTFY. But now? I dunno. Maybe I've lost the will to live.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#393

Post by rtpg »

zanny wrote: post #65
pillowkusis wrote: post #7

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

I agree the model is the future, but a for profit American company running a proprietary web service cannot be the final solution. On one hand, patronage perfectly replaces all the draconian reasons modern IP exists as it does. Paying people to make the stuff you want them to make versus having them paid by someone looking to profit off government enforced scarcity on the produced work is much, much better for everyo…

>it would be insane to let a private company dictate who gets to use the platform

It would be absurdly easy for anyone who has problems with Patreon to set up an alternative place. Though you still have to deal with payment processors.

Patreon is less a platform, and more just a hosting service. Saying someone banned from Patreon is shut off from this sort of service might be a bit of a stretch IMO.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#394

Post by specialist »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #368
cookiecaper wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Sticks and stones can break my bones, but words can never hurt me". This old cliche is underappreciated in our day and age. Individuals are free to choose the way they process the information and commentary they receive. When someone physically assaults you, there is no choice involved, and your life is legitimately and immediately threatened by such activity in the real, physical, and non-abstract sense. It is grea…

If only this were in any way true. There is a such thing as mental abuse, after all. Some folks lived through this growing up. Gaslighting is just words too. Folks kill themselves due to harassment. That harassment? Yeah, it can be nothing more than daily messages and/or phone calls and/or letters. Widespread, open racist speech generally signals an environment where racist actions are well-tolerated, I'm assuming (I…

I used to be a Chomsky-esque defender of free speech. Believing the correct response to Holocaust denial was refuting it, not banning it.

But now we know better. How you talk changes how you think. Violent rhetoric normalizes that behavior. Refuting misbeliefs cements the falsehood. Propaganda works.

Worse, the hate speech has become a virtue signal, a tribal identifier. It's become overtly political, a bludgeon.

I now prefer to think of free speech as a form of hygiene. Sure, feel free to poop on the sidewalk, but don't expect me to accept that as permissible behavior.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#395

Post by davidjnelson »

WikipediasBad wrote: post #318
pillowkusis wrote: post #7

I have seen so many content creators go full time and create awesome work because Patreon gives them a format to incentivize their followers to pay them. The economics are beautiful — turns out just 1,000 people (a pittance on internet mass media websites) donating $5 a month will totally change the way you run your life. And even better, these artists are independent in a way no artist has ever been before. You’re n…

Is there a patreon specifically made for open source or coding projects?

Dan Abramov used it while working on redux dev tools. Seems the link expired though.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#396

Post by bluthru »

learc83 wrote: post #331
bluthru wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize, I wasn't aware of that quote by her until you posted it, as I only watched her explanation. She definitely steps out of the lines of "reporter" when she said that. However, my question still stands: what law or policy did Lauren break?

Using her boat to physically block a ship from leaving the harbor and firing flares in that direction. That is definitely illegal. The ship had no cargo at the time, but even if it was carrying tons of heroin and literal slaves, trying to block a large ship at night with a small boat is dangerous vigelantee behavior at best. And it's most definitely illegal. Call the coast guard if you think something illegal is goin…

>And it's most definitely illegal.

Under what jurisdiction?

>The rediculous part is that she was there to supposedly stop "human trafficking", but her and her boatmates were chanting "no illegal immigration" the entire time.

In this case it's one in the same. The vast majority of these people aren't refugees:

http://i.imgur.com/WCBSbMP.png

https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12FDB/producti...

The vast majority are adult males: https://i.imgtc.com/9epy1e1.jpg

Gee, I wonder how a large ship like that is funded?

>No one except these far right groups think that NGOs are working with smugglers to get people into Europe.

Wrong. The Chief Prosecutor of Catania, Sicily thinks so: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-04-06/soros-linked-undesi...

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#397

Post by learc83 »

bluthru wrote: post #396
learc83 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using her boat to physically block a ship from leaving the harbor and firing flares in that direction. That is definitely illegal. The ship had no cargo at the time, but even if it was carrying tons of heroin and literal slaves, trying to block a large ship at night with a small boat is dangerous vigelantee behavior at best. And it's most definitely illegal. Call the coast guard if you think something illegal is goin…

>And it's most definitely illegal. Under what jurisdiction? >The rediculous part is that she was there to supposedly stop "human trafficking", but her and her boatmates were chanting "no illegal immigration" the entire time. In this case it's one in the same. The vast majority of these people aren't refugees: http://i.imgur.com/WCBSbMP.png https://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/12FDB/producti... The vast major…

>Under what jurisdiction?

You're seriously arguing about the legality of using your boat to attempt to block a ship from leaving a harbor? I'm going to leave it to you to find the law the coast guard believed the violated when they arrested them. I don't speak Italian, so you have at it.

>Wrong. The Chief Prosecutor of Catania, Sicily thinks so:

And he's a far right politician who has zero evidence.

After he made that statement, the Italian Justice Minister asked him to open an investigation if he had any evidence, but he refused and stated it was merely a hypothesis and he had no actual evidence.

There's nothing but looney toons conspiracy theories to support this stuff about George Soros working with ISIS to smuggle in terrorists, it's complete nonsense.

I get it, you want to keep Europe white. Defend Europe wants to keep Europe white. Far right news sites and bloggers wants to keep Europe white.

You can say that without resorting to conspiracy theories, and trying to co-opt the international outrage against sex trafficking.

I get why you do it, out right saying that you want a white civilization isn't palatable to most people. But wrapping it up in language about "Western Civilization" and stopping human trafficking is so transparent that it's not worth the effort.

And if you do want to keep migrants out of Italy for whatever reason, the correct way to do it isn't by pulling your boat in front of a ship at night and firing flares at it.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#398

Post by Guncat12 »

wfo wrote: post #345
AlwaysBCoding wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've already fucked it up. Here's an hour long interview with Patreon's CEO, Jack Conte, where he goes through some ridiculous mental gymnastics trying to justify why it's ok he is kicking conservative journalists off his platform. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofpbDgCj9rw

Yes, now white supremacists trying to make sure brown people die in the ocean using patreon funds are conservative journalists. Won't anyone think of free speech? Next he'll ban patreon crowdfunding the creation of snuff films, what a monster. It's almost like he doesn't want to be knowingly complicit in murder. I'll give you this, though, the man is devious -- can you imagine the mental gymnastics involved in watchi…

This is a disgusting comment.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#399

Post by Broken_Hippo »

specialist wrote: post #394
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only this were in any way true. There is a such thing as mental abuse, after all. Some folks lived through this growing up. Gaslighting is just words too. Folks kill themselves due to harassment. That harassment? Yeah, it can be nothing more than daily messages and/or phone calls and/or letters. Widespread, open racist speech generally signals an environment where racist actions are well-tolerated, I'm assuming (I…

I used to be a Chomsky-esque defender of free speech. Believing the correct response to Holocaust denial was refuting it, not banning it. But now we know better. How you talk changes how you think. Violent rhetoric normalizes that behavior. Refuting misbeliefs cements the falsehood. Propaganda works. Worse, the hate speech has become a virtue signal, a tribal identifier. It's become overtly political, a bludgeon. I n…

Exactly. The link from thinking about doing something and actually doing it is much less if one can openly talk about doing it. Oddly enough, much like the act of pooping.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#400

Post by Sir_Cmpwn »

Veratyr wrote: post #328
WikipediasBad wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you mean coders on patreon itself? Any links to coder patreons I can look at? Or do you mean a new startup that's patreon for open source/coders? It would be really interesting to build a patreon platform tailor made for coders if the market for it is not already taken by patreon.

> Do you mean coders on patreon itself? Yes, they're on Patreon proper. Patreon isn't constrained to entertainment. > Any links to coder patreons I can look at? A few I know or Googled: - https://www.patreon.com/bcachefs - Works on a new filesystem - https://www.patreon.com/cemu - A WiiU emulation project - https://www.patreon.com/ShareX - An open source Windows application for sharing stuff - https://www.patreon.com…

For the record, cemu is closed source.
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