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Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

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Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#301

Post by Sinidir »

vetinari wrote: post #156
chrisoverzero wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons […] Have you? Are you thinking of Lauren Southern? Or maybe It's Going Down? The explanation from Patreon is very reasonable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmcK6GvgVPs

Sorry, but "we don't need evidence, our imagination is enough" is not anywhere near "very reasonable". The free speech is not necessary for the speech you agree with. It is for the speech, you don't agree with. Just because Patreon guys are fans of Antifa does not mean, they should bring their ideology to the business.

Did you even watch the video? lol.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#302

Post by door »

syshum wrote: post #262
door wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no one is saying you can't say things, they are just saying you can't say things in certain places. there have ALWAYS been regulations, both legal and market, on what you can say on tv, radio, in newspapers. 50 years ago you could write your pro-nazi holocaust denying op ed but it isnt a violation of free speech when the new york times refused to publish it. now we have large mainstream internet communities like redd…

> 50 years ago you could write your pro-nazi holocaust denying op ed but it isnt a violation of free speech when the new york times refused to publish it. The New York times also never publicly advertised themselves as a "Free Speech Platform" that was "open to all persons and views" >they are saying that horrible things shouldn't be said on a massive platform that millions of people see Well one, it is clear you you…

if you think that calling racism or nazism horrible is "subjective" then you clearly have no solid principles and this conversation is over

i think you're wrong about christianity, and we can debate whether or not advocacy of it should be allowed on a public platform. i think comparing it to nazism, targeted harassment, child porn/revenge porn, and hate speech (really the only things banned on reddit for example) is delusional

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#303

Post by thaaddd »

syshum wrote: post #280
coredog64 wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater and immediate incitement of violence are not allowed in the US either.

>>Yelling "fire" in a crowded theater Actually you likely can https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim... https://www.popehat.com/2012/09/19/three-generations-of-a-ha...

I'm glad it's not just me that immediately thinks of popehat when I see "fire in a crowded theater"

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#304

Post by timecube »

vetinari wrote: post #156
chrisoverzero wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've seen Patreon kicking people off their platform for political reasons […] Have you? Are you thinking of Lauren Southern? Or maybe It's Going Down? The explanation from Patreon is very reasonable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YmcK6GvgVPs

Sorry, but "we don't need evidence, our imagination is enough" is not anywhere near "very reasonable". The free speech is not necessary for the speech you agree with. It is for the speech, you don't agree with. Just because Patreon guys are fans of Antifa does not mean, they should bring their ideology to the business.

IGD is an antifa website...

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#305

Post by therealdrag0 »

dugditches wrote: post #5

I asked this before, but it wasn't really the place: 1. To those who donate to Patreons, how do you budget/think about/justify your donations? 2. Do you have a set budget? What if you really want to support someone suddenly, do you stop supporting someone else to do so, or reduce how much you give them? 3. When do you stop/reduce Patreon support? How long do you typically support someone? Until you feel they no longe…

1. Anyone I subscribe to (consume content from regularly). 2. 1-5$. 1 guy has 10k patrons, so for him I just do 1$ per episode. "Philosophy Bites" has <300 patrons, so I give them more per episode. 3. When I stop consuming someone's content regularly. I have done this once or twice.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#306

Post by FireBeyond »

vetinari wrote: post #179
chrisoverzero wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sorry, but "we don't need evidence, our imagination is enough" is not anywhere near "very reasonable". The video literally shows clips of behavior. The common theme of the video is “manifest observable behavior”. The video explains how actions, not speech, are what broke the terms of service. I really recommend you watch it. (Odd use of quotation marks – you directly quoted me, but completely made up what Patreon s…

> The video literally shows clips of behavior. I see you are new to the game of presenting video clips out of context and manipulating the audience. > The common theme of the video is “manifest observable behavior”. The video explains how actions, not speech, are what broke the terms of service. I really recommend you watch it. (Odd use of quotation marks – you directly quoted me, but completely made up what Patreon…

> I see you are new to the game of presenting video clips out of context and manipulating the audience.

Yeah, right. Lauren Southern, complaining about being removed: "I was in no way a part of Defend Europe. I was merely an observer".

Lauren Southern, ON Defend Europe: "Go go go, get in front of them! You need to get in front, come around, block them and they'll have to stop", "And if the politicians won't stop them, then we will!"

Yeah. "Observer".

But tell us all about how our "context" is wrong, and Lauren was maligned.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#307

Post by didgeoridoo »

btym wrote: post #297
_xhok wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's technically true, but the Patreon CEO has claimed that they're committed to free speech, which is false if they're going to kick out screaming lunatics who are protected under the definition of free speech. If so they shouldn't get credit for it.

There is no single definition of free speech. Even the relatively permissive American definition of free speech has exceptions for hate and violence.

Where did you get that daft idea?

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#308

Post by Inconel »

specialist wrote: post #293
syshum wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No "Hate Speech" is not a form of assault, nor should it be treated as such Further the entire concept of "hate Speech" is rife for abuse and is antithesis of Free Speech. How do you objectively define "Hate Speech", do you trust government to define this, that is a scary thought if you do...

What's the most hateful thing someone ever told you? Or that you heard (witnessed)? How did it make you feel?

There's no point in me repeating the most hateful things that have ever been directed at me, but they certainly were hurtful and made me feel bad.

With that being said, having been the victim of assault multiple times in my life, once needing extensive hospitalization due to the injuries sustained, I can comfortably say that I don't view these two things as being remotely analogous and wholly reject the notion that speech, even speech that I find hurtful or distasteful, is assault.

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#309

Post by bluthru »

learc83 wrote: post #186
bluthru wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you can't inhibit human trafficking? Was she charged with anything?

Please read this summary of the conversation and tell me how your comment follows. paulgb: Lauren Southern was attempting to block ships. bluthru: No, she was just reporting on an attempt to block ships. learc83: No, she participated. Here's a quote from her saying she participated. bluthru: You can't inhibit human trafficking?

I apologize, I wasn't aware of that quote by her until you posted it, as I only watched her explanation. She definitely steps out of the lines of "reporter" when she said that.

However, my question still stands: what law or policy did Lauren break?

Re: Inside Patreon, the economic engine of internet culture

#310

Post by manigandham »

dna_polymerase wrote: post #142
bryanlarsen wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They kicked off 8chan but kept The Sarkeesian Effect so in my opinion they've got it exactly right. They keep up pretty nasty stuff in the name of free speech, but don't let you cross the line into doxing and the like. I much prefer having sensible humans at the helm than have something purely anonymous.

There is no "getting it right" in free speech. Either you allow free speech or you don't, if you are keeping one controversial thing but kick out the other you gave up on free speech. You can't kick someone out because you think its right and claim allowing free spech.

This has nothing to do with free speech, which is protection from government prosecution only (and even then it's tempered by certain situations like threatening attacks against others).

Private organizations or communities can do whatever they want. It's frustrating to constantly see the same argument as if everyone must be allowed on every platform - that's simply not the case.

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