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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#251

Post by marchenko »

Stratoscope wrote: post #185
ineptech wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I made a falsifiable prediction about reality. If I'd written an essay on Medium that ostensibly argued for one side's view, but which did so in a condescending and divisive manner more likely to show what a clever guy I am than to actually persuade anyone on the other side, then I would've become what I hate.

But you did take one side's view in a condescending and divisive manner. The side you took is the one that divides people into a Red Tribe and a Blue Tribe, ascribes stereotypical views to each, and makes lists of attributes to categorize people into one of these two tribes. People are quite a bit more complex than that, and these kinds of arbitrary binary divisions get in the way of finding common ground.

It's a bit of a strange prediction. If we take boxing as a model of a formerly massively-popular sport now considered excessively dangerous, we can observe that minority (Latino and African-American) participation remains high. These demographics are generally not considered part of the Red Tribe coalition. If football follows the same trend, it will be a weak tribal correlate at best.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#252

Post by brandonmenc »

mcgrath_sh wrote: post #190
ineptech wrote: post #34

Has "whether you let your kids play football" joined the long, long list of boolean values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? If not, I think it's inevitable that it will. Someone will try to get their school to close its football program, someone else will complain that the health dangers are exaggerated by the liberal media because football is a red-state passtime, and pretty soon it'll be…

Depends on where you are from. In super blue Pittsburgh, not a chance on earth. Football will have to be nationally legisated against in order for its popularity to fall in Western PA. I am sure there are other, similar pockets in the country.

I'm originally from Western PA. It's not really "super blue" - at this point, it's pretty much just Republicans who also like unions.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#253

Post by nikofeyn »

herthdrht3 wrote: post #240
nikofeyn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year." there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

If you really can't believe that, you need to get out more. FYI I live in a fairly major US city and my rent is a quarter of yours. Your life experience is not normal.

i get out plenty. my apartment is even under market. i don't live with roommates. there is literally no way to get an apartment anywhere close to 50% cheaper by yourself in the market i am in. my experience is perfectly normal here.

even in my previous city (a major US city), my rent was only 50% less than it is now. and in that market it would be equally as hard to find one at 50% of that price.

if you live for a quarter of what i currently rent, then you must undoubtedly live with roommates or live in a not so great place (which is fine) or both, all of which i consider being frugal, which he stated he wasn't. or you simply live in a completely different market.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#254

Post by falcolas »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #210
ChuckMcM wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is the secret to happiness as far as I am concerned; measure your days by how much you've learned not by how much you have earned. Interesting to know about the retirement 'vest' of 3 years. If he lives another 60 years that is a bit more than $1.25M.

That is the secret to happiness as far as I am concerned; measure your days by how much you've learned not by how much you have earned. Yet the vast majority of the time, this sentiment comes from people who are well-off, e.g. someone with an MIT PhD and an almost impossible-to-screw-up future. There are at least two possibilities. Either people who aren't well-off are just sour grapes, or they deal with a lot more t…

> an almost impossible-to-screw-up future.

Unless he kept playing football.

The rest I agree with - not having to worry about money is a quantifiable bonus in the happiness department.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#255

Post by nikofeyn »

claystu wrote: post #226
nikofeyn wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year." there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

I believe it. If he owns everything free and clear--I'm betting he does--and he avoids big purchases and fancy trips, he can basically get by on purchasing nothing but food, electricity, phone, and gas. Tack on some clothes and reasonable eating out, and you can live well on $25,000 per year. Everything else was probably paid for by the team.

yea, i thought that might be the case, but it makes his comment heavily caveated since it's entirely dependent on his employment with the nfl.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#256

Post by camiller »

learc83 wrote: post #220
camiller wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be ok with "nearly as bad" "Based on the national estimate, the majority of concussions resulted from participation in football (40.5%, n = 55 007), followed by girls' soccer (21.5%, n = 29 167), boys' soccer (15.4%, n = 20 929),..." So 40.5% of concussions in football and 36.9% in combined boys/girls soccer. source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2140075/

Looks like there are about 3 times more kids playing soccer than tackle football. I'd say a 3x lower concision rate isn't close to "nearly as bad". In addition to concussions, football players are also believed to receive repeated microtrauma from running into each other repeatedly, which contributes to CTE. Football is a full contact sport. It is inherently more dangerous. Collisions in soccer happen accidentally. T…

In 2016 (in the US) 1.08 million students participated in high school football while 821,851 participated in soccer.

I don't have stats available for middle school, but earlier than that the players don't hit nearly as hard, as they have considerable lower mass and speed.

Not sure where your 3x number comes from, but I don't think we need to include YMCA recreational league soccer any more than we need to include flag football.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#257

Post by rublev »

mmmrtl wrote: post #228
srj wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it fair to the people who want to sign up for it that you're making the decision for them? There's no social ill conferred on the greater public by their decision, what's the reason for meddling in their lives?

The general public shouldn't be interested in watching people give themselves brain damage for millions of dollars. Without the monetary incentive, people wouldn't be playing football at this level (or the high school and NCAA feeders), which sure looks like exploitation to me. If the NFL has known about the risks for years and continued with its business model, it should absolutely face lawsuits and financial ruin.

The kids at the high school down the street from me have no monetary incentive either, yet they love playing, and have played since they were kids.

I agree with everything you said except "The general public shouldn't ..." That is a very dangerous method of thought.

I agree that it shouldn't be banned, but the risks is the thing everyone needs to hear first, they should be plastered everywhere.

I have no problem bringing bloodsport back if it's entirely voluntary and the public has an interest in it. What if two guys want to voluntarily duel it out to death? Why not build a stadium and let them?

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#258

Post by ThrustVectoring »

nshelly wrote: post #197
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's set for life if he keeps his expenses at $25k/yr. $1.8MM / $25k = 72. Even if he loses half to taxes, that's still 36 years worth of expenses in assets. If I had that much, I'd retire in a heartbeat.

On the cumulative salary of $1.8m over three years he's looking at an effective rate of around 35%. But he definitely won't lose half of his pension to taxes. That's one of the main advantages is that is spread out over a number of years. The NFL, with all its faults in neglecting players health, was wise to set players up with pensions.

I didn't even count the pension in there, just the $1.8m in salary.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#259

Post by DoubleCribble »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #150
luckydata wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think any kind of challenge in a team setting would have provided the same growth without the side effect of possibly irreversible brain damage? I'm happy you like football, but I don't think you can say it forms character in a unique way, it's just a team sport and there's tons of team sport where hitting people with your head aren't the bread and butter of it. Try volleyball, if you have to fuck up someth…

"Just a team sport" No other sport works you as hard as Football does. Between three-a-days (practicing 8am to 8pm) for weeks, and each practice primarily consisting of basically playing football (running play after play, at 100%, for practice, with tackling), Football works you harder than any other sport. I'll get told by some this is just my opinion, but the vast majority of other sports are not shear tests of str…

>Football works you harder than any other sport.

You might change your opinion after a week playing Water Polo. You've got the same level of energy required for sprints and man-handling your opponents as football, but then throw in the added bonus of getting repeatedly squeezed/kicked in the groin (on purpose!), scratched all to hell (no pads!), and the constant attempts at opponents trying to (almost) drown you. You don't just have to be physically strong to play, you've got to be mentally iron-willed to want to get in the pool with the other lunatics.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#260

Post by ovulator »

troisx wrote: post #62
CurtMonash wrote: post #39

I abruptly stopped being a football fan last November. The immediate reason was Bill Belichick staking his own reputation on Donald Trump's assaults on the media, in a close state in a close election. But CTE was making it hard to remain a football fan anyway.

So players killing people, players beating their wives and kids, and players breaking the law constantly didn't make you stop being a fan. But one coach exercising his political rights did. Fascinating.

I mean, he could have just started rooting for the Jets.
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