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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#141

Post by prostoalex »

geophile wrote: post #42
Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

Yes, the NFL should shut down. Yes, it is worse than the 3rd world child labor scenario. The kid in the 3rd world probably has no other choices, and along with his peers, may actually be improving things for his society. Nicholas Kristof (of all people) pointed this out when it was found that someone documenting the horrible conditions at Foxconn fabricated melodramatic stories. (This was a big kerfuffle on This Amer…

The only reason you don't hear of NFL slump is that contracts between broadcast networks and the league are negotiated well into the future.

TV cord cutting is on the rise, TV usage is down, having to compete with online and mobile time, ESPN figures drag down the entire Disney empire, ESPN is going through layoffs almost each month, seems like. When the time finally comes for cable networks to re-negotiate the deals, NFL numbers won't look as pretty.

Which means lower expenses, higher consolidation, lower player salaries, etc. It won't disappear entirely, but will be just another sport like NASCAR or horse racing, reaching a rather narrow group of avid followers.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#142

Post by sjg007 »

meri_dian wrote: post #115

He clearly loves math so the CTE study may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. He may have been yearning to fully devote himself to math for a while now. Regarding the broader debate that seems to be swirling along the lines of 'should we ban Football or not', I strongly believe we should not. If parents want to prevent their kids from playing football, great, that's their choice to make. But if the…

Dude. Multiple blows to the head causes CTE. And it starts as early as high school which is when tackle football starts. At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#143

Post by ozborn »

meri_dian wrote: post #115

He clearly loves math so the CTE study may just have been the straw that broke the camel's back. He may have been yearning to fully devote himself to math for a while now. Regarding the broader debate that seems to be swirling along the lines of 'should we ban Football or not', I strongly believe we should not. If parents want to prevent their kids from playing football, great, that's their choice to make. But if the…

Where did you get the 99% from?

I thought the conclusion from that study was at least 9% of NFL players would gone on to develop CTE. This estimate was made by making a conservative (but very unrealistic estimate) that EVERY player that did not donate their brains did not have CTE.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#144

Post by ineptech »

sangnoir wrote: post #114
ineptech wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am deriding the sort of discourse that topics like this usually produce, not the people making the arguments. It's certainly possible that the public debate over kids' football will largely be apolitical and civil and productive, such things do happen, but I'm predicting that it won't be.

> I am deriding the sort of discourse that topics like this usually produce You have become what you hate - you are the one who introduced the subject. Its like "Has anyone compared $TOPIC to Nazis yet? This subject has a tendency to be Godwinned".

I made a falsifiable prediction about reality. If I'd written an essay on Medium that ostensibly argued for one side's view, but which did so in a condescending and divisive manner more likely to show what a clever guy I am than to actually persuade anyone on the other side, then I would've become what I hate.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#145

Post by nickpeterson »

troisx wrote: post #62
CurtMonash wrote: post #39

I abruptly stopped being a football fan last November. The immediate reason was Bill Belichick staking his own reputation on Donald Trump's assaults on the media, in a close state in a close election. But CTE was making it hard to remain a football fan anyway.

So players killing people, players beating their wives and kids, and players breaking the law constantly didn't make you stop being a fan. But one coach exercising his political rights did. Fascinating.

To be fair, there are a lot of people in the NFL, and all of them are usually 20-40 year old men. The fact that some of them get convicted of crimes does not surprise me. It may be shocking if the percentage of criminals in the NFL was much higher than non-professional athletes I guess?

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#146

Post by yelnatz »

blang wrote: post #140
aresant wrote: post #65

A few colorful facts to the story here: 1) 3 years of service vests into NFL pension plan, he just hit qualification - value pegged at $21,360 a year for life (3) 2) He has not publicly commented on his retirement or reasons for it. 3) He has a hugely awesome secondary option - doctorate of math at MIT 4) He was at end of his rookie contract, next year would be the "in the money" year for him so he is clearly leaving…

He has also had some endorsement money with Bose.

Are those guaranteed? Do you lose endorsements when you quit playing?

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#147

Post by brandall10 »

aresant wrote: post #65

A few colorful facts to the story here: 1) 3 years of service vests into NFL pension plan, he just hit qualification - value pegged at $21,360 a year for life (3) 2) He has not publicly commented on his retirement or reasons for it. 3) He has a hugely awesome secondary option - doctorate of math at MIT 4) He was at end of his rookie contract, next year would be the "in the money" year for him so he is clearly leaving…

It's worth reading his 2015 article "Why I Still Play Football": https://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-i-play-football/.

Regarding mathematics as a career and his outlook on the financial issue -

"I have a bright career ahead of me in mathematics. Beyond that, I have the means to make a good living and provide for my family, without playing football. I have no desire to try to accumulate $10 million in the bank; I already have more money in my bank account than I know what to do with. I drive a used hatchback Nissan Versa and live on less than $25k a year. It’s not because I’m frugal or trying to save for some big purchase, it’s because the things I love the most in this world (reading math, doing research, playing chess) are very, very inexpensive."

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#148

Post by School-Cotton »

opportune wrote: post #139
dceddia wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He certainly could be, if he keeps living on $25k/year. See [0] and run some calculations at [1]. 0: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/01/13/the-shockingly-sim... 1: https://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement

People generally don't retire to $25k/year, especially if they eventually get married and have children. The only way to really make something like that work is to move somewhere extremely inexpensive like SEA. That's unrealistic for most people. This is the one thing that has always struck me as odd abut the FIRE community. FIRE is a good goal but it's highly abnormal for people to retire early with these very low a…

Does SEA mean Seattle? My mind is blown that Seattle comes to your mind as the least expensive place in the US...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#149

Post by srj »

geophile wrote: post #42
Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

Yes, the NFL should shut down. Yes, it is worse than the 3rd world child labor scenario. The kid in the 3rd world probably has no other choices, and along with his peers, may actually be improving things for his society. Nicholas Kristof (of all people) pointed this out when it was found that someone documenting the horrible conditions at Foxconn fabricated melodramatic stories. (This was a big kerfuffle on This Amer…

How is it fair to the people who want to sign up for it that you're making the decision for them? There's no social ill conferred on the greater public by their decision, what's the reason for meddling in their lives?

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#150

Post by ApolloFortyNine »

luckydata wrote: post #137
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played football in up through High School, and I'd definitely say I would be a different person today if I hadn't gone through it. The camaraderie amongst the team is unique amongst every experience I've had since. Plus working through something so challenging definitely provides a great level of satisfaction. I like who I am today, even if I might have a higher risk for any symptoms, and I believe football played…

Don't you think any kind of challenge in a team setting would have provided the same growth without the side effect of possibly irreversible brain damage? I'm happy you like football, but I don't think you can say it forms character in a unique way, it's just a team sport and there's tons of team sport where hitting people with your head aren't the bread and butter of it. Try volleyball, if you have to fuck up someth…

"Just a team sport"

No other sport works you as hard as Football does. Between three-a-days (practicing 8am to 8pm) for weeks, and each practice primarily consisting of basically playing football (running play after play, at 100%, for practice, with tackling), Football works you harder than any other sport.

I'll get told by some this is just my opinion, but the vast majority of other sports are not shear tests of strength the same way Football is. If you're a lineman in football, every play is practically you bench pressing another player your size over the field. And it's the same for every lineman, and anyone on offense has to do the same.

So yes, I believe Football works character differently due to the sheer difficulty of the sport physically.

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