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Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

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Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#191

Post by nikofeyn »

brandall10 wrote: post #147
aresant wrote: post #65

A few colorful facts to the story here: 1) 3 years of service vests into NFL pension plan, he just hit qualification - value pegged at $21,360 a year for life (3) 2) He has not publicly commented on his retirement or reasons for it. 3) He has a hugely awesome secondary option - doctorate of math at MIT 4) He was at end of his rookie contract, next year would be the "in the money" year for him so he is clearly leaving…

It's worth reading his 2015 article "Why I Still Play Football": https://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-i-play-football/ . Regarding mathematics as a career and his outlook on the financial issue - "I have a bright career ahead of me in mathematics. Beyond that, I have the means to make a good living and provide for my family, without playing football. I have no desire to try to accumulate $10 million in the bank; I a…

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year."

there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#193

Post by hyperbovine »

sosborn wrote: post #170
sjg007 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude. Multiple blows to the head causes CTE. And it starts as early as high school which is when tackle football starts. At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

It isn't immoral or unethical to have sports where long-term injury can occur. Using that metric we would have to ban all sports. What is unethical is not educating the participants of the risks. We need to push for more studies and education, not bans.

Now there's a false equivalence if ever I saw one. I stiff hip or bum knee from playing sports seems way, way different to me than suffering irreversible dementia and chronic depression beginning in one's late 40s.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#194

Post by emn13 »

sosborn wrote: post #170
sjg007 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude. Multiple blows to the head causes CTE. And it starts as early as high school which is when tackle football starts. At this point it is immoral and unethical to have tackle football in schools.

It isn't immoral or unethical to have sports where long-term injury can occur. Using that metric we would have to ban all sports. What is unethical is not educating the participants of the risks. We need to push for more studies and education, not bans.

There's a difference between a small risk of long-term injury (a risk you run in different ways if you're not doing sports, I might add), and near certain brain damage.

Not all sports have so grim an outlook - and I bet football too could be fixed with some rules changes (e.g. I don't recall any stories of rugby having such effects, and that's at least somewhat related).

Further research can probably help, but it's unwise to wait for that if the results are already sufficiently clear as is.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#195

Post by ianferrel »

nikofeyn wrote: post #191
brandall10 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth reading his 2015 article "Why I Still Play Football": https://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-i-play-football/ . Regarding mathematics as a career and his outlook on the financial issue - "I have a bright career ahead of me in mathematics. Beyond that, I have the means to make a good living and provide for my family, without playing football. I have no desire to try to accumulate $10 million in the bank; I a…

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year." there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

He probably owns his home. Most people who own property don't count the imputed rent as part of their expenses.

Whether they should depends a lot on context.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#196

Post by pnathan »

ineptech wrote: post #34

Has "whether you let your kids play football" joined the long, long list of boolean values that separate members of the Red Tribe from the Blue Tribe? If not, I think it's inevitable that it will. Someone will try to get their school to close its football program, someone else will complain that the health dangers are exaggerated by the liberal media because football is a red-state passtime, and pretty soon it'll be…

Hard for me to say, as I live in Seattle, but American football love is definitely non-partisan here.

But certain sports carry too high a risk for me to support my child getting into them before 16ish. They must have a glimmering of a perspective on what life means before choosing to engage in activities that are significantly likely to permanently damage themselves for life. Particularly for football, there are brain effects. Implication here: for boys, football is off the table. For girls, competitive gymnastics. There are likely other sports that could be found as way too high permanent risk.

For perspective on how I'm choosing: soccer is also risky and carries CTE risk, but less so than football. If boy wants to do skiing, running, or mountain biking, that is fine; crossfit, not so much (too aggressive). A certain amount of physical damage is far more acceptable than neurological damage. Things happen though; a friend of mine had his very young daughter fall into a pool and drown a few years after being preemie. That's this life on earth, sorrow and joy. I will give as much responsibility as I can, but the parent's responsibility to is to shape and limit around the ability of the child to react and foresee. Permitting choosing sports which have lifelong damage likelihood, when they are too young to understand the consequences, seems to be poor choice on my part.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#197

Post by nshelly »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #182
QuotedForTruth wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is he isn't "set for life" like some may expect NFL players to be.

He's set for life if he keeps his expenses at $25k/yr. $1.8MM / $25k = 72. Even if he loses half to taxes, that's still 36 years worth of expenses in assets. If I had that much, I'd retire in a heartbeat.

On the cumulative salary of $1.8m over three years he's looking at an effective rate of around 35%. But he definitely won't lose half of his pension to taxes. That's one of the main advantages is that is spread out over a number of years. The NFL, with all its faults in neglecting players health, was wise to set players up with pensions.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#198

Post by geophile »

TremendousJudge wrote: post #155
geophile wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the NFL should shut down. Yes, it is worse than the 3rd world child labor scenario. The kid in the 3rd world probably has no other choices, and along with his peers, may actually be improving things for his society. Nicholas Kristof (of all people) pointed this out when it was found that someone documenting the horrible conditions at Foxconn fabricated melodramatic stories. (This was a big kerfuffle on This Amer…

so we should just ban boxing as well? skiing is super bad for your knees I hear, should we ban that as well? motor racing? bricolage?

There is a difference between banning something, which is imposed; and shutting down, which involves no 3rd party.

Boxing: Not banned, but a lot less popular in the USA than it used to be. Maybe this is due to better understanding of the physical toll (brain damage, the occasional death resulting from pummeling in the ring), although there were other factors too. People going in know, or should know, the risks.

Skiing: If you want to risk your knees, go ahead. You know about the risks.

Football: The risks are finally becoming known, but the NFL seems to have known the risks for years, and sought to suppress this information from spreading. The other physical risks are known, and participants make their choices, as in skiing. But the NFL has tried to fool participants about the extremely serious consequences, much like the tobacco companies did with the health risks of cigarettes. Coaches and recruiters -- even in high school -- know the risks and turn a blind eye. How an informed parent can let a child participate in football now is beyond me.

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#199

Post by greedo »

georgeott wrote: post #78
Azkar wrote: post #28

So what's the big picture here? We've suspected for years that football leads to brain trauma. Does that mean the NFL should shut down? Should they continue to operate as normal? There have been efforts recently to make the game safer for players, but the amount of concussions and injuries seen every season don't seem to be decreasing. Can you make the game "more safe" without drastically changing the game? Any game…

I think weight limits would be a good start. Do we really need 400 pound linemen? I also think game play would improve with lighter, faster players.

The average starting NFL lineman was around 325 in 2016[1]. The game does like lighter and faster players, but often that's a tradeoff against durability.

1. http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/the-nfls-starting-offensi...

Re: Ravens OL John Urschel, 26, retires abruptly, two days after CTE study

#200

Post by nerpderp83 »

nikofeyn wrote: post #191
brandall10 wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worth reading his 2015 article "Why I Still Play Football": https://www.theplayerstribune.com/why-i-play-football/ . Regarding mathematics as a career and his outlook on the financial issue - "I have a bright career ahead of me in mathematics. Beyond that, I have the means to make a good living and provide for my family, without playing football. I have no desire to try to accumulate $10 million in the bank; I a…

> "i ... live on less than $25k a year." there's no way i can believe that. my rent alone is $24,000.

Baltimore.
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