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The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

nytimes.com

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Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#121

Post by SpaceRaccoon »

madengr wrote: post #67
e40 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Work for a Fortune 100 Company too. Your HR department is shit. I manage a 30 person company and our benefits are better than what you've mentioned.

Yes, no argument there. I work for Fortune #75 (hint; it's probably hanging on your wall). Lost dental insurance last year, vision the previous year, and switched to an HDP the year before (with massive premium increases every year). But hey, the stock price was at an all-time high on Friday. Funny thing about HR directors is that they don't last more than 1 year before rotating out. Don't want them to become too att…

>I work for Fortune #75 (hint; it's probably hanging on your wall).

Honeywell; thermostats?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#122

Post by Devthrowaway80 »

mistermann wrote: post #111
jackmott wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

vote for candidates who will support single payer.

Changing things so all taxpayers are getting robbed rather than just the individual being treated seems like a sub-optimal solution.

Yeah, it won't work. It works in every other developed nation in the world, and they all pay less money for better healthcare outcomes, but hey, the US is Totally Special.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#123

Post by DanBC »

com2kid wrote: post #102
richthegeek wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately the NHS is, in many ways, pretty bad. They're pretty good at dealing with pregnancies, cancers, and emergencies but try getting seen for a chronic pain and you'll follow this rough timeline: - Try see your GP. Wait 2 weeks until your appointment. - GP will give a cursory examination and recommend a dietary change, taking ibuprofen/paracetamol, and to come back if problem persists. - Problem persists. Bo…

In contrast, to America working for a good employer: 1. Schedule with GP. Say I am in pain. Get in within 2 days. 2. Get a referral to Physical Therapy. Asked if I have any preference where to go. My doctor knows my network and gave me a number of choices that were within network (a number of which were within walking range of where I lived). 3. Call PT office. Schedule an appointment. They apologize that their next…

To be fair that's usually how it works in England too, with maybe a bit longer to wait for physiotherapy, and the addition of weight loss programmes.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#124

Post by vkou »

madengr wrote: post #14
pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

Yep. Took my wife to the ER last week for suspect appendicitis or diverticulitis. Last time this happened a CT scan alone was $3k ($11k prior to insurance reduction). My HDP is $4,500 OOP max per family member; $8,500 for family. What really pisses me off is that the HSA max contribution has not kept up with family OOP max. I contribute the max every year and can't end up with $8,500 saved. I had a decent insurance p…

Wouldn't the mandate against dropping coverage for people with pre-existing conditions result in price increases across the board? (Because now insurers can't take your money, and then tell you to fuck off once you get sick.)

You're probably now paying the 'true' cost of healthcare. (Of course, inflated by the peculiarities of the American system.)

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#125

Post by chimeracoder »

richthegeek wrote: post #76
jaymzcampbell wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow European (UK) here. From what I understand one argument often given, is that there's a mistrust of the government for anything like this and people prefer to "shop" for it themselves. By making their own choice (even if all that actually means is picking from 1 or 2 options given to them by their employer) - they feel empowered and in control of it. There is a general feeling of "if you want it, pay for it". T…

Unfortunately the NHS is, in many ways, pretty bad. They're pretty good at dealing with pregnancies, cancers, and emergencies but try getting seen for a chronic pain and you'll follow this rough timeline: - Try see your GP. Wait 2 weeks until your appointment. - GP will give a cursory examination and recommend a dietary change, taking ibuprofen/paracetamol, and to come back if problem persists. - Problem persists. Bo…

> They're pretty good at dealing with pregnancies, cancers, and emergencies

I agree with everything you say, except the part about cancer.

Even by European standards, the NHS is actually quite terrible at dealing with cancers - even "routine" cancers (like breast cancer and prostate cancer), let alone rare cancers. The five-year survival rate for prostate cancer in the UK is 55%, whereas in the US it's upwards of 90%. (Prostate cancer is an incredibly treatable form of cancer; for most people, as long as it's detected early and managed appropriately, they will die with prostate cancer as opposed to from it).

Of developed countries, only Japan, Portugal, and Denmark have worse five-year survival rates for prostate cancer.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

eatbitseveryday wrote: post #74
ydt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this same thing happen. My daughter was admitted via ER and it turned into a 6 day stay. At the end we received a bill for 40k for being out of network. Luckily I have friends in the industry and it turns out if they fail to inform you within 48 hours that you're not in network you don't have to pay the out of network cost. We ended up paying just our deductible after a letter was drafted. Do not take what the…

> Luckily I have friends in the industry and it turns out if they fail to inform you within 48 hours that you're not in network you don't have to pay the out of network cost. Curious, can you perhaps provide evidence of this? Seems like a good thing to know. > Call an attorney. This is itself a cost, and maybe only makes sense if you owe ≥ $10k but for procedures billed as $1k when they should be $400 I don't think w…

Many attorneys will provide a free or very low cost initial consultation; you may have an unrealistic picture of what the actual cost of legal services for this particular scenario would be, and may benefit from actually finding out before assuming they are too expensive.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#127

Post by narrator »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #22

I am having problems with my insurer at this very moment. I went to an in-network hospital for an ER visit, which turned into an 8-day stay (yes, it was serious). Evidently, none of the doctors at the hospital are in-network, however, (claims from various technicians are still "in processing", so I don't know how they will turn out) despite the fact that the hospital itself is definitely in-network. I had no choice a…

When I had back surgery, there were all these therapists coming in the moment I got out of surgery trying to get their 1 minute in. It was throughly ridiculous. One of them was attempting to do physical therapy and pulled on my leg a little and put me into so much pain I went into shock. She probably got her $600 bucks.

I am with Kaiser now and it is the most BS free medical experience I have ever had. To fix healthcare without single payer the government should just make a law that medical insurance can only be offered by hospital chains and the doctors and specialists cannot bill insurance separately, but must be paid by the hospitals. This is how Kaiser works. That way the hospitals can pay a fair market rate to doctors and not have them demanding a surprise emergency room rate from distressed patients.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#128

Post by maxsilver »

mistermann wrote: post #105
ydt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had this same thing happen. My daughter was admitted via ER and it turned into a 6 day stay. At the end we received a bill for 40k for being out of network. Luckily I have friends in the industry and it turns out if they fail to inform you within 48 hours that you're not in network you don't have to pay the out of network cost. We ended up paying just our deductible after a letter was drafted. Do not take what the…

Can someone knowledgeable on the subject comment on whether the "Obamacare movement" has been up front in acknowledging this aspect of the problem with health care in the US? My perception is that the problem is typically framed as a lack of insurance problem for financially challenged people, but the "abuse" on the billing side to me seems like at least as big of a problem. And if this is being conveniently ignored,…

> My perception is that the problem is typically framed as a lack of insurance problem for financially challenged people, but the "abuse" on the billing side to me seems like at least as big of a problem.

If anything, the billing abuse is a much, much larger problem than lack of insurance. At least, that has generally been true since the ACA/"Obamacare" changes passed.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#129

Post by snuxoll »

dv_dt wrote: post #116
cortesoft wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the fundamental problem of treating healthcare like any other market distributed good; you just don't have the ability to use consumer choice. People using an emergency room are not in a position to negotiate price or seek an alternative service. An unconcious accident victim can't say, "That price is crazy I am going to the hospital across town." Single payer is the only viable solution.

> Single payer is the only viable solution. I would say single payer, or a single regulatory arbiter of procedure and drug prices (within a multi payer context). When you look at the healthcare costs GDP, the single payer systems still tend to come out ahead multi-payer + regulatory oversight (its one more level of abstraction you pay a complexity cost for...).

> I would say single payer, or a single regulatory arbiter of procedure and drug prices (within a multi payer context).

As someone who works for a medical billing agency either would make my life easier, having to juggle dozens of insurance contracts and rates stinks. France does the latter, insurance companies and the state plan negotiate and a single group - at the best this could make a good stepping stone to single payer in the US.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#130

Post by softawre »

coreyp_1 wrote: post #22

I am having problems with my insurer at this very moment. I went to an in-network hospital for an ER visit, which turned into an 8-day stay (yes, it was serious). Evidently, none of the doctors at the hospital are in-network, however, (claims from various technicians are still "in processing", so I don't know how they will turn out) despite the fact that the hospital itself is definitely in-network. I had no choice a…

Do you not have some max out of pocket for the year? Mine is 4000$, or 6000$ out of network.
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