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The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

nytimes.com

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Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#11

Post by maxxxxx »

occultist_throw wrote: post #2

Does anyone know if a lawsuit has been lodged questioning these practices? I've always thought that my informed consent should also apply to cost of procedure - I have a right to say "NO" to something in the medical establishment. And had I known the price and the success rate, I would have said "No". Now, I'm not asking "What is my exact rate?", although that would indeed be nice. But given minimal complications, I…

The range for most things is somewhere between $0 and $100000, sometimes higher. Is that good enough :-) ?

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#12

Post by frgtpsswrdlame »

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

The people who need to march the most are the ones who can't, the ill. And when they do it's not exactly pretty:

http://time.com/4829103/mitch-mcconnell-protest-senate-healt...

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#13

Post by maxxxxx »

rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

There is a lot of propaganda how bad systems in other countries are. Plus, this is the only system most people ever have seen so they think this is just the way things are and have to be.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#14

Post by madengr »

pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

Yep. Took my wife to the ER last week for suspect appendicitis or diverticulitis. Last time this happened a CT scan alone was $3k ($11k prior to insurance reduction). My HDP is $4,500 OOP max per family member; $8,500 for family.

What really pisses me off is that the HSA max contribution has not kept up with family OOP max. I contribute the max every year and can't end up with $8,500 saved.

I had a decent insurance plan prior to Obamacare. Now it's 3x as much and a HDP. Don't even have dental insurance anymore; use the HSA for that. Work for a Fortune 100 Company too.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#15

Post by cortesoft »

pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

This is the fundamental problem of treating healthcare like any other market distributed good; you just don't have the ability to use consumer choice.

People using an emergency room are not in a position to negotiate price or seek an alternative service. An unconcious accident victim can't say, "That price is crazy I am going to the hospital across town."

Single payer is the only viable solution.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#16

Post by maxxxxx »

istorical wrote: post #10
rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

"You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured"

With copays and out of network stuff a lot of people will go bankrupt in case of a serious illness.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#17

Post by muninn_ »

istorical wrote: post #10
rwmj wrote: post #4

Over here (in Europe) we get the impression that US has such a crazy healthcare system. Why aren't people marching in the streets? Is it not as crazy as it sounds for most users? If you're taken to ER how are you supposed to know if the doctors are all part of "your network" (whatever that even means)?

Because those in the middle and upper class have employer-paid health insurance which protects from the worst of bills. You only go bankrupt if you're uninsured and usually only those in the lower-middle or lower class are uninsured. And those in the lower echelon of society economically are those least able to have the time or money to march or lobby for change.

I just logged in to say this (trying to comment less and read more) but this needed said.

Even with a vanishing middle class, the middle and upper class that remains still have largely great healthcare and healthcare plans, it's the poor who are largely being screwed. Even then, they don't support universal healthcare (it's mostly us hipsters or whatever) because they are still weary of the government and we're still dealing with post-mccarthyism where any sort of government service for the public benefit is socialism.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#18

Post by maxxxxx »

cortesoft wrote: post #15
pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

This is the fundamental problem of treating healthcare like any other market distributed good; you just don't have the ability to use consumer choice. People using an emergency room are not in a position to negotiate price or seek an alternative service. An unconcious accident victim can't say, "That price is crazy I am going to the hospital across town." Single payer is the only viable solution.

"Single payer is the only viable solution. "

That's not true. Plenty of European systems are not single payer and work fine.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#19

Post by Frondo »

pascalxus wrote: post #3

So, basically, if you visit any emergency room then your handing them a blank Check and they can write whatever number on there they want. That's egregious beyond belief. I'm never one to call for legislation and price controls, but in the face of such adversity, I think it may be our last hope. I think they should either provide a quote before they offer the services or there should be a law limiting the amount that…

The thing is, if you're in an emergency room, for the most part, you're there because of a medical emergency. (I know this isn't universally true, etc.)

If you're bleeding, and someone hands you a price quote, what are you going to do?

Or if you're unconscious, they can't even hand you a price quote. (I guess they could shove it in your pocket.)

I know the one time I needed to go to the ER, for emergency surgery, I'd have done it if they'd said it was a million billion dollars, because my life was literally on the line. I wasn't going to go shopping around, because leaving that ER would've meant death.

What's a price quote supposed to do in those situations?

We just need universal coverage, whether single payer or actually universal insurance.

Re: The Company Behind Many Surprise Emergency Room Bills

#20

Post by cortesoft »

occultist_throw wrote: post #2

Does anyone know if a lawsuit has been lodged questioning these practices? I've always thought that my informed consent should also apply to cost of procedure - I have a right to say "NO" to something in the medical establishment. And had I known the price and the success rate, I would have said "No". Now, I'm not asking "What is my exact rate?", although that would indeed be nice. But given minimal complications, I…

Lots of patients in the ER are incapacited; either unconcious, in severe pain, or under a serious time constraint to get their problem fixed.

They can't just ask about price while unconcious.

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