$4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3 • Hacker News Board

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#91

Post by woodandsteel » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:05 PM UTC

krishicks wrote: post #26

Crash test results: 0 stars https://youtu.be/jePu-6TxypI Reminds me of the Tata Nano (also 0 stars): https://youtu.be/buMXtGoHHIg

Yea, but if you made it safe, it would be too expensive for most of the target market to buy. This is the developing world.

The same thing happens everywhere, a country goes through a period of wild-west capitalism, then, if things go well, eventually it gets rich enough to be able to afford things like safe products, worker safety laws, a social safety net, and so on. I am not aware of any country that has gone straight from non-industrialized to safe industrialization.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#92

Post by sien » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:07 PM UTC

5_minutes wrote: post #54

rokhayakebe wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please keep in mind India has one of the, if not the, largest middle class population in the world.

Can you verify that with some sources/stats? And what's your definition of a "middle class" in India?

Presumably using the definition of spending $4 to $6 a day.

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/11/6-surprising-facts-ab...

However, there are other estimations around that make India's middle class much smaller, say ~25M

http://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/ind...

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#93

Post by harryVic » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

rokhayakebe wrote: post #40

5_minutes wrote: post #7

I was just watching on ViceLand an episode about the Indian (non-existent) sewage system. Millions of people there have no sanitation facilities and deficate anywhere, where possible. And are living of a few dollars a month. It's really worthwhile watching, btw. So talking about "quality cars" for $4000 here seems totally surreal. And that that would be disruptive is even more of a strange observation. The author sur…

Please keep in mind India has one of the, if not the, largest middle class population in the world.

Indian middle class would be below poverty line by western standards. People who can barely afford a car are not middle class by world standards.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#94

Post by vacri » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #66

pavel_lishin wrote: post #5

That ceremony looks monstrously tiring to an introverted westerner like me. I don't want to cut a cake and watch a priest bless my car; I want to walk onto a lot, look over the car I pre-selected online to make sure it's the right one, and then give someone some money and drive away. I'm also wondering how long that friendly attitude - and the traveling pop-up repair program - will last. Once everyone wants one of th…

It's pretty common in India to take your new car to the temple and get it blessed.

Interesting that in the photos, the priest is the least 'dressed-up' of all of them.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#95

Post by abawany » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:16 PM UTC

ceejayoz wrote: post #90

abawany wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare this to a 80s Mercedes 190: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw1GNfA_AnU . The passenger cell remains solid though the crash dummies experience injuries. I often wonder how much better the automotive market would be if solid designs remained in circulation instead of these new-old mistakes re-entering the market every time.

Those solid designs mean much higher impact forces on the passengers. Crumple zones are a significant part of why modern cars are more survivable in accidents. You just don't want to make the passenger part of the crumple zone, which appears to be what Renault has done here.

True, that was my point. The front of the 190 collapses significantly while the passenger compartment remained stable, which is quite unlike the Renault. From my reads on the evolution of automotive safety, it seems that the core lesson that was learnt from the aviation industry was to make sure the passenger compartment integrity was maintained first and foremost.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#96

Post by justin66 » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:20 PM UTC

harigov wrote: post #61

smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

Traffic speed in cities is usually so bad that you will rarely if ever meet with a major accident using these cars. That doesn't mean that safety isn't important. It's just that we are not talking about 70mph American freeway speeds.

I wouldn't want to get in a partial-overlap head-on collision in one of these things, at even a third of the speed you're talking about.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#97

Post by 0x006A » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:23 PM UTC

thrownblown wrote: post #67

weeksie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

the robots will be doing all the driving by then

did anyone let a robot try its luck on an urban street in india yet? looking forward to see how that works out... for sure it will need another mode that is more agressive to not just get stuck.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#98

Post by toomanybeersies » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:24 PM UTC

weeksie wrote: post #50

smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

Ahhh safety, driving, and the developing world. Ugh. I haven't tested the hypothesis but I think the switch from mopeds to cars has resulted in a huge number of traffic fatalities. This was super evident in Thailand as it's quite clear that non tuk-tuk/rickshaw or motorcycle transport is a very new thing. There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the roa…

> There's an obliviousness to the fact that they're driving thousands of pounds of steel and nobody else on the road is protected in the same way.

I think they are, they just don't care in that part of the world. I remember in Cambodia seeing the Lexus SUVs constantly almost running pedestrians and riders over, if you can afford a Lexus in Cambodia, you can afford to get out of trouble for running someone over (although most of the owners had drivers, who would end up taking the fall).

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#99

Post by weberc2 » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:28 PM UTC

tux1968 wrote: post #39

smcg wrote: post #16

One of the reasons why the Renault Kwid is $4000 is because, well, it uses cheap materials, and with that comes a very bad safety rating. This is enabled by India's nearly non-existent car safety regulations. Everything has a "price".

Although if the alternative is to be riding a moped, and in many cases without a helmet, this still represents a step forward in safety.

For the driver and passengers; not necessarily for pedestrians, cyclists, or mopedestrians/motorcyclists.

Re: $4k Renault compared to Tesla Model 3

#100

Post by gorkonsine » Wed, Jul 19, 2017, 10:34 PM UTC

mschuster91 wrote: post #55

weeksie wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better safety for the driver of the car, not the poor bastard on a scooter that gets mowed down ;)

If you're on a scooter you get mowed down regardless if the colliding party is a scooter, a car or a truck. And even if the colliding party is a scooter, there's still all the traffic behind it. So it doesn't matter. That is a job for the government to actually hire and train cops to enforce traffic rules (red lights, DUI, right-of-way)...

Cars are generally faster than scooters. If everyone else is driving a scooter too, you're much less likely to get hurt in a crash, or to have a crash, because the energies are much lower and the speeds are much lower (low speeds make it easier to avoid crashes). Also, momentum is a real thing. Getting hit by a scooter at 10mph isn't nearly as bad as getting hit by a truck at 10mph.