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Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

bbc.com

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Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#311

Post by x2398dh1 »

stingraycharles wrote: post #245
cr1895 wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salty water is quite literally more dense than fresh water. Average seawater is 1025 kg/m^3, pure water is nominally 1000 kg/m^3. Somewhat related video: dense brine that doesn't freeze in Arctic sea ice sinks rapidly through liquid seawater below https://youtu.be/WyWn1XJ9kTE

Oh geez, you're absolutely right, I don't know what I was thinking. I probably needed my morning coffee.

It's OK, stingrays like you aren't expected to know about polar regions and super cold water.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#312

Post by x2398dh1 »

agentgt wrote: post #296

"I only turned it on when I went to pee or to climb down to get fresh water," he says. I know this is really dumb question but why did he need to turn on his light to pee? I presume he is in his wet suite?

I would presume that he didn't want to pee in his water supply, perhaps? So he had to aim very precisely toward a low-lying area.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#313

Post by phil21 »

dkersten wrote: post #291
pragone wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the choice of having a father at home or have one dead in cave but famous for exploring cool places I don't think it's hard to guess what most children would pick. In all seriousness, I do have a hard time guessing which one most children would pick. I can see reasonable arguments made on either side. Personally, I think it would be far more inspiring to have a father who died pursuing his passion, then one w…

My father died when I was 8 and I know a number of others who lost a parent as a child and, while I know this is anecdotal, every single one would rather have their parent. Every single one would rather have a dead-beat (but not abusive, I imagine that would change the equation) dad over no dad. Also, from the article: "My children don't like it much but they don't tell me not to do it"

> Every single one would rather have a dead-beat (but not abusive, I imagine that would change the equation) dad over no dad.

This is demonstrably untrue in my social network. Just in my own friend group I know a handful of folks who would much rather their father simply didn't exist, rather than having this effectively random person they now owe some supposed family obligation to. Basically they got all the responsibilities of having a father, and none of the benefit.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#314

Post by dkersten »

phil21 wrote: post #313
dkersten wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My father died when I was 8 and I know a number of others who lost a parent as a child and, while I know this is anecdotal, every single one would rather have their parent. Every single one would rather have a dead-beat (but not abusive, I imagine that would change the equation) dad over no dad. Also, from the article: "My children don't like it much but they don't tell me not to do it"

> Every single one would rather have a dead-beat (but not abusive, I imagine that would change the equation) dad over no dad. This is demonstrably untrue in my social network. Just in my own friend group I know a handful of folks who would much rather their father simply didn't exist, rather than having this effectively random person they now owe some supposed family obligation to. Basically they got all the responsi…

> This is demonstrably untrue in my social network.

I don't know what problems your network face, so I'm not judging, but in my own experience, people who haven't lost a parent sometimes think that maybe they'd be better off. I'm sure there are plenty of cases where this is actually true and I can see why having someone who you're meant to care about but who is essentially a stranger isn't a particularly nice thing, but at the same time, having grown up without a father, I and those I know who lost a parent, would rather have someone than not have someone. Maybe its a "you don't know what you've got until it's gone" kind of thing (or maybe those people in your network really do have shitty family).

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#315

Post by pdonis »

hueving wrote: post #250
pdonis wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since I talked about life insurance, obviously I'm talking about cases where your life is on the line. So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? Even if you have life insurance?

>So does that mean you should never do anything that might get you killed if you have children? You should probably avoid things that cause life insurance rates to jump up. That's a good barometer for excessive risk. >Even if you have life insurance? Parents and money are not substitute goods. Life insurance is helpful for financial security, but it doesn't account for the detriment to being raised by a single parent…

> You should probably avoid things that cause life insurance rates to jump up. That's a good barometer for excessive risk.

That's at least a reasonable criterion. I would be interested to see data on the impact of cave diving on life insurance rates.

> Parents and money are not substitute goods.

I already agreed with that upthread.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#316

Post by Chris2048 »

betenoire wrote: post #307
Chris2048 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't agree, but what does that matter? Nothing stops coming up with a proper standard - such a thing already exists to some extent. The example of childbirth has more factors to it - other than it being required to further the human race, there is a biological imperative to do it. Plus, in the past, women didn't always have as much choice.

A standard for what? You keep saying standard. You expect a "risk standard" to emerge? An "activity standard"? Hobby Standards? I honestly am not following you. Risk is as diverse as anything.

Di insurance companies insure different activities? There must be internal standards for determining risk - they don't just roll a dice.

So yes, activity.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#317

Post by always_good »

Chris2048 wrote: post #299
always_good wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comments are a good reminder of why HN needs a per-submission limit on the number of comments a single user can make. Yes, you've shared your point. Now you're dominating the discussion by responding to everyone with the same exact moralizing comment.

Why? Because you don't like my opinion? Then why not contribute constructively rather than fling mud?

It's irrelevant whether I like your opinion or not. My issue is that your point has been heard. ...And heard, and heard, and heard.

Time to clear out of the theater to make room for other people who want to partake. Basic etiquette.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#318

Post by botverse »

hota_mazi wrote: post #205
benzofuran wrote: post #18

When you're learning to cave dive, one of the first things that you learn is that you may very well die in there. Most of the training focuses on systems, skills repetition, and understanding and using redundant systems - folks getting into cave diving typically are already extremely experienced divers who if anything need only some minor skill tweaks - most cave instructors will not take on students who don't alread…

I'll add one tiny point to your very well documented answer: another skill you learn for cave diving is to control your kick to avoid raising stilt. This is particularly relevant since the stilt obscuring the cave is precisely what led to the incident described in this article. It's not clear it happened because the divers were careless or despite them, but I thought it would be worth pointing out to non divers that…

The article says that the stilt raised as they found each other abruptly, losing the guide as well.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#319

Post by fit2rule »

benzofuran wrote: post #97
fit2rule wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, its a fascinating scenario which leaves many questions. I'm going to have to ask my geology friends if there is such a thing as an air-tight drilling technique that would not have resulted in the scenario you describe - google-fu doesn't seem to produce results - but I imagine there might be some sort of air-tight sleeve that can be used at the head of the shaft, which may as well be rather thin diamete…

A lot of us cave divers work in other areas as well - I'm an engineer in Oil & Gas - a lot of other folks I know are either scientists or engineers. This sort of activity appeals to us for some reason. You described a blowout preventer ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_preventer ) by the way :) Many cave systems are quite shallow, and while I don't know the details on the one there in Mallorca, by the size of w…

Thanks for the BOP reference. :)

Terrific balls, you cave-divers! Definitely not for me .. though the stories do delight, and sometimes .. terrify.

Re: Two days in an underwater cave running out of oxygen

#320

Post by Chris2048 »

always_good wrote: post #317
Chris2048 wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Because you don't like my opinion? Then why not contribute constructively rather than fling mud?

It's irrelevant whether I like your opinion or not. My issue is that your point has been heard. ...And heard, and heard, and heard. Time to clear out of the theater to make room for other people who want to partake. Basic etiquette.

> My issue is that your point has been heard. ...And heard, and heard, and heard.

What does that mean? My posts aren't dupes. If my responses are similar, it's because similar posts existed in the first place.

> make room for other people who want to partake

This is a digital forum, there are no such restrictions, "theater etiquette" doesn't apply.

A good quality post is a good quality post, why would it matter who posts it?

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