Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet • Hacker News Board

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#391

Post by Toast_ » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 4:55 AM UTC

sumeno wrote: post #370

mr_spothawk wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've mentioned a number of times before, but I'm actually advocating to my friends against their participation today for the reason that I believe, if the Evil ISP acts in a crumby way, that it will create demand for better service. And I think that's the only way to get to a Mesh Internet For The People, By The People. My position is that: We don't need big pipes (or millions of hours of television piped to us every…

Comcast is already despised by its customers. There is already demand for better service but most people don't have any other option. It is naive to think that the loss of net neutrality will be the straw that breaks the camel's back for Comcast.

Unpopular opinion: I've never had a problem with Comcast and I loved the fact that they allowed users (in my experience) in the same residence cash in on promos.

promo ends -> cancel plan -> new roommate signs on.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#392

Post by unityByFreedom » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 4:58 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #358

unityByFreedom wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, https://www.freepress.net/blog/2017/04/25/net-neutrality-vio...

Maybe I wasn't clear; I was asking for examples of global infrastructure like the Internet being shaped by the whims of US politics and corporate culture , but the examples provided by Free Press are almost all in the US.

Ummm democracy? Capitalism? I dunno what you want man. The world is connected. We all impact each other. Europe impacts the US as much as vice versa, as does Asia, etc.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#393

Post by wooter » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:01 AM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #166

mrkrabo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you want to ruin the internet more for the rest of the world today?

Because I want to protect it for the whole world for the future. Netflix, Google, Amazon, Facebook, Wikipedia, Twitter, Reddit, and other major services you use which are supporting net neutrality all started as American companies. If this measure fails, it's less likely that equally good companies will come from the resulting situation. Sorry about your Internet today, but they're doing it for your Internet tomorrow…

weird considering they all came about from that "situation"

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#394

Post by burntrelish1273 » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:11 AM UTC

chiefofgxbxl wrote: post #148

mabbo wrote: post #19

If Google were actually serious about Net Neutrality, they would use their insane market power to protect it. How? Well, a simple statement saying "any ISP who abuses net neutrality will have their customers cut off from Google products". No Google search, no YouTube, no Gmail. Have those requests instead redirect to a website telling the customer what their ISP is doing, why Google won't work with them, and how to c…

Also something to note: Google is not listed on the list of participants on the "battle for the net" web page. [0] Is this a mistake? Am I missing something? [0] https://www.battleforthenet.com/july12/#participants Edit: I also checked for the parent company "Alphabet", which also is not listed.

I think it's a minor omission, not a dodge to pacify handset makers or network carriers.

To be fair, Apple is pro-NN but not vocal about it.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#395

Post by Bakary » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:24 AM UTC

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #324

avar wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Radiolab did an episode recently[1] which disagrees with that Bloomberg article. They interview ex-Secretary of Defense William Perry asking him what controls there are, if any, on a crazy president just willy-nilly deciding to nuke something. He says there's absolutely none, even if the president is in a room full of people who vehemently disagree with him he alone makes the call to launch. 1. http://www.radiolab.or…

Yes yes, but... The President can make the call to launch and everyone in the room can ignore him, arrest him, tape his mouth shut. Or just shoot him. Edit: fixed a word

It's pretty generous to assume that will happen. It might, but it's far from a certainty.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#396

Post by intended » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:28 AM UTC

wmf wrote: post #201

dragonwriter wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net neutrality regulations were adopted to protect (and in some degree restore) the net neutrality condition ; the internet was largely neutral from its inception; though by the early 00s threats to neutrality in practice were becoming clear, and the FCC began discussion the issue, adopting open internet principles that it first attempted to promote via case-by-case action (which was limited by the courts), then Titl…

One thing I've wondered is why ISPs turned evil after so many years of voluntary net neutrality.

ISPs turned evil the day they started eyeing the pie they were carrying.

AT that time, we were comfortable because we didn't think DPI was possible.

But eventually some coder cooked it up, iirc it was to "protect the children", while being desperately sought after by the MPAA/RIAA.

From then on its just been a long slug fest to today.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#397

Post by Bakary » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:29 AM UTC

mattferderer wrote: post #189

komali2 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, something absolutely needs to be done about that. The only failsafe is a US soldier illegally disobeying orders. Actually, most soldiers that have a key would need to disobey orders, because it wouldn't take too many nukes to end life as we prefer it on earth.

Hopefully the soldier is like Stanislav Petrov. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Arkhipov

Don't forget about this lad!

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#398

Post by Bakary » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:30 AM UTC

dingo_bat wrote: post #345

komali2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love this idea because I read too much cyberpunk. Why doesn't Twitter flex its muscle and cause a national crisis by tweeting "watch out China, nukes are coming" from Donald Trump's Twitter? That ruins trust in the platform, but what if they just banned the US president's account for TOS or something? Enormous amount of power. What if Musk's first ship to Mars had a hidden Railgun on it? "Anybody else that wants to…

> cause a national crisis by tweeting "watch out China, nukes are coming" from Donald Trump's Twitter? Are you serious? That would cause actual people to die. And Twitter will end up with a huge lawsuit.

The point isn't that they wouldn't do it because of the consequences, but rather that a random company can wield this amount of power.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#399

Post by intended » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:37 AM UTC

thehardsphere wrote: post #172

lerpa wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs have a lot to win with keeping their monopolies as it is. Given the amount of alarmism it actually seems to me there is heavy propaganda advocating for the status quo, for some reason, perhaps they want further regulations that can be done more easily through net neutrality. Not sure.

Once you establish that the FCC can regulate the internet, you can do all kinds of very opaque regulation that is difficult to change (e.g. other guy needs to control White House and Congress or sue the government and win). Heavier regulations usually favor established players who can engage in regulatory capture, to shape the new rules to prevent future competition from smaller companies and firms that don't even ex…

You argument would make sense if you were talking about the regulation of lemonade stands.

This point seems to be lost on all people making an econo-governance argument against NN.

Telecom tends towards a natural monopoly.

The power is with the industry, not with the consumer.

It will always be so, because of the inherent nature of the industry, and that is why the industry shows up as a text book example of industries which require legislative intervention to result in optimal outcomes for consumers.

In particular:

Telecom requires large up front investment in fixed costs. You need to lay cable, build infra, and more.

This immediately means that you cannot have a fluid competitive marketplace, as new entrants are curtailed by the costs.

Without point 1, you cannot competition.

Without competition you cannot have innovation, and differential servicing.

Re: Net Neutrality Day of Action: Help Preserve the Open Internet

#400

Post by aaronbrethorst » Thu, Jul 13, 2017, 5:38 AM UTC

Consider this your friendly reminder that Clinton would’ve preserved the NN rules set up under Obama, and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion had she been elected.

Especially consider this the next time a friend says ‘every politician is the same,’ or whatever.