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Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

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Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#111

Post by mnm1 »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #96
proee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then I'm sure it's frustrating when a professional who runs a Marathon in close to 2 hours, hears you say the same thing.

I'm no 2-hour-marathon pro, just a has-been mediocre collegiate runner, but there's some understanding of the effort levels and dedication that are required, no matter the accomplishments. But there are runners, and there are joggers, and there are joggers that call themselves runners and post "26.2" stickers on their cars. By analogy, there's a difference between an HN celebrity, someone who does programming for a l…

I'd hardly compare someone jogging a marathon to someone who can't complete FizzBuzz. There's no way in hell most people who aren't in shape are even going to walk that, let alone jog 26.2 miles. It clearly takes a lot of training to jog, run, or even walk a marathon. Some people are slow. That in no way detracts from their accomplishment or the work they have to put in to get there. I'd say the winner of the marathon and the jogger accomplished pretty much the same thing. As long as they fulfilled their own goals--some of which might not include a set max time goal--the finish time is irrelevant.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#112

Post by juli1pb »

ErikAugust wrote: post #85
tbenst wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ran at an elite D1 collegiate program. The vast majority of runners will get injured at 100 miles per week, assuming a reasonable pace no slower than 7 min / mile. Slower than that is not useful training for Olympic events. Our top runner was a 13:30 5k and 29:20 10k at 70-80 miles per week. Ultras are a different beast entirely, as its more of a "survival" test of muscles, ligaments, and bones than that of sustain…

"Slower than that is not useful training for Olympic events." Lydiard-ians would disagree - at least for a base phase. But I will agree that if you are running even 7min/miles for your easy and recovery runs, many get injured at 100 miles a week. Many do. And that disrupts their development in the worst way possible! Interesting article on that: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked... But sure…

I agreed with your argumentation... until you linked letsrun :)

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#113

Post by tjr225 »

bstrong wrote: post #92
mirkules wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

I highly recommend Honey Stinger Gold. I had trouble with every other gel I've tried, but I can digest the honey just fine, even without water.

Honey Stinger Gold got me through my first in Detroit in 3:30. Highly recommend.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#114

Post by ErikAugust »

juli1pb wrote: post #112
ErikAugust wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Slower than that is not useful training for Olympic events." Lydiard-ians would disagree - at least for a base phase. But I will agree that if you are running even 7min/miles for your easy and recovery runs, many get injured at 100 miles a week. Many do. And that disrupts their development in the worst way possible! Interesting article on that: http://www.letsrun.com/news/2006/09/wejo-speaks-why-i-sucked... But sure…

I agreed with your argumentation... until you linked letsrun :)

Hahha oh come on - Weldon makes a strong case.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#115

Post by kamaal »

gaius wrote: post #69
ErikAugust wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - I could go with thousands... and maybe tens of thousands.

SAS, SEALs, Spetsnaz... it wouldn't be a long list!

All this ultramarathon running looks like a cake walk when compared to the "Hell week" in Navy SEALs training.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#116

Post by terheyden »

scintill76 wrote: post #86

> And so I set about fortifying my sense of self-control, based on the following factors: [Standards, Monitoring, and Strength] > Strength: ... I built my mental strength by running even when I didn’t want to—when I was sore, stressed, or sleepy. He built his will power by doing things he didn't have the will to do? One of the pillars of his self-control is that he has self-control? Maybe I'm missing something or jum…

Totally agree; I was most interested to hear how he cultivated his fortitude. What a letdown.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#117

Post by gaius »

kamaal wrote: post #115
gaius wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SAS, SEALs, Spetsnaz... it wouldn't be a long list!

All this ultramarathon running looks like a cake walk when compared to the "Hell week" in Navy SEALs training.

Or SAS Test Week https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_Special_Forces_...

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#118

Post by ramblerman »

HorizonXP wrote: post #15

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

This guy is definitely not keto though. He just has an aversion to high glucose gel packs which I agree with.

Here he is making a banana smoothie: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96VZFklUM_Q&feature=youtu.be...

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#119

Post by runamok »

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

100 miles a week will tax the bio-mechanics of most people in the first world. Granted doing those 100 miles at 10 min/mile is far, far easier than doing it at 6:00 to 7:00 pace. And doing lots of LSD (long slow distance) DOES have proven physiological effects.

But please don't treat 100 mile weeks as some trivial task. I have been running for > 25 years and have run from a 4:40 mile to a 2:44 marathon and 1:15 half and my max week was 84. I was doing consistent 70 mile weeks in college for a while and finally couldn't continue due to injury.

I do agree with your core point that most people have no idea what their true limits are. I have seen friends who hated to lose pass out at the finish line of a race. I find I don't even improve until I hit about 40 miles a week with at least one LT run of 4 to 6 miles and a >= 13 mile long run. That only takes about 4 to 5 hours a week (not including extra showers, drives to runs, necessary strength work, etc.) I guarantee most spend far more than that on Netflix et al.

P.S. Congrats on your race!

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#120

Post by bitexploder »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #96
proee wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then I'm sure it's frustrating when a professional who runs a Marathon in close to 2 hours, hears you say the same thing.

I'm no 2-hour-marathon pro, just a has-been mediocre collegiate runner, but there's some understanding of the effort levels and dedication that are required, no matter the accomplishments. But there are runners, and there are joggers, and there are joggers that call themselves runners and post "26.2" stickers on their cars. By analogy, there's a difference between an HN celebrity, someone who does programming for a l…

Marathons are harder for people who run them in 4 hours (assuming they tried as hard as they could). They are on their feet longer, and have to coerce their mind to push that much longer. It is just a different race for mid and back of the packers. Further, training is much the same. You might run 50-60 miles in a week because you can go faster. A slower runner might dedicate 30 or 40% more of their time to achieve that many miles. It takes the same mental effort to run at a 4 RPE (RATING PERCEIVED EFFORT on a scale of 1-5) as it does for an elite. The elite just has genetics on their side. I used to feel much the same way you do, but truly those "joggers" slogging out a 4 or 5 hour marathon giving it their all after months of running 9+ hours per week. They are runners too.

Ultras are also far less populated by folks with an elitist running mentality. It is more about being in nature and a personal journey, which is why Ultra appeals to a certain crowd. Olympians and the guy down the road have more in common with their running experience than not.

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