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Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

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Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#31
This article angers me.

1. the guy is only an example. Willpower alone will not make you run 100 mile-race. You need the right body as well.

2. most people don't try and run 100 mile-races because they have better things to do

3. willpower and success: seriously this is really self congratulatory. running 100 miles does not make anyone a more succesful person.

4. no mention of endorphines and running addiction?

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#32
post #28

I'm sorry, but this is all gobbledygook. Nice ad for "sword" sportfood products, though. For one thing, running 100 mile races isn't a very good standard for willpower or self control. There is virtually zero use for this capability, so whether you spend 5-10 hours a week to do so or not isn't really a question of self control. It's a question of what activities/hobbies you want to pursue in your free time. Staying f…

> There is virtually zero use for this capability [running 100 mile races]

That's a major point of the article, given it's discussion of the spillover effect: "The bottom line: Practice self-control in one area of your life, and you can apply it in other parts, too."

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#33
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people just walk these ultras, probably anyone healthy can do that with enough time to prepare. As well, probably anyone healthy can slowly jog a marathon with enough time to prepare. But not everyone can qualify for boston, or make the olympics.

Source? I participate in these kinda of events.. I'd be interested to know where you are getting your information.

look up the average pace of the finish, do math. note: people have brought up aid station time, which, yes if you spent like 30 minutes at each this would being mid pack finishers up into the 'mostly running range' but its still amortized walking pace.

This isn't meant to suggest that 100milers are easy or dumb, just that if you imagine someone actually running 100 miles straight and think that sounds nearly impossible, it is. Most people aren't doing that. If you think a 100 miler sounds interesting, you should try it, because you can probably do it. But please prepare really well because it is going to be really hard.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#34
post #17

”Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning to program” Sure, and so did thousands of others. Bill Gates clearly didn’t become a modern Croesus because he was a better programmer, this is just trying to shoehorn Microsoft into the at once self-evident and ludicrous 10000 hour idea.

> ”Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning to program”

Here's the full quote: "Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning how to program computers—but he only had that opportunity because he had the good fortune of having parents who supported his education."

I think you're in violent agreement that 10,000 hours isn't sufficient.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people just walk these ultras, probably anyone healthy can do that with enough time to prepare. As well, probably anyone healthy can slowly jog a marathon with enough time to prepare. But not everyone can qualify for boston, or make the olympics.

Go ahead and try it! How hard could it be? http://ultrasignup.com/

I'm sure it would be extremely hard for me to mostly walk 100 miles at once.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#36

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

This is dangerous nonsense. Is it possible to run ultra marathons on fat? Of course, you have enough fat stored for many many of those. Is it in any way amenable to a good performance? Not at all, and you don't need a biology PhD to realize that. The limiting factor in endurance sports is rate of oxygen uptake, fat metabolism takes more oxygen per energy yielded and is therefore strictly less efficient than deriving energy from glycogen.

Not to mention the majority of people will feel absolutely terrible trying to run in a depleted state. And there is no good reason to inflict that extra hardship on yourself when you can eat a large carb dinner and have enough glycogen to carry yourself through a half marathon

(Why can this guy still get good results? Ultra marathon is not at all a highly competitive sport. Someone to the far right of the genetic bell curve can handicap themselves with pure fat metabolism and still perform good. They would be absolutely killed in say the marathon distance where there is much higher selection pressure, if you want to call it that. Also, you don't run ultra distance at a high effort level, say 50-60% of VO2max - so here fat metabolism is naturally more pronounced anyway)

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#37
post #28

I'm sorry, but this is all gobbledygook. Nice ad for "sword" sportfood products, though. For one thing, running 100 mile races isn't a very good standard for willpower or self control. There is virtually zero use for this capability, so whether you spend 5-10 hours a week to do so or not isn't really a question of self control. It's a question of what activities/hobbies you want to pursue in your free time. Staying f…

> There is virtually zero use for this capability,

Oh really?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endurance_running_hypothesis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persistence_hunting

"Lacking guns and even bows, they could hunt only by digging traps or pursuing prey across the mountains until the animals collapsed from exhaustion. Dmitry built up astonishing endurance, and could hunt barefoot in winter, sometimes returning to the hut after several days, having slept in the open in 40 degrees of frost, a young elk across his shoulders."

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/for-40-years-this-russ...

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#38
I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes.

Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits.

Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) out of billions of people are bumping up against physiology. These people will do anything for the smallest performance gains (1%).

Really, if you have not achieved a level where you are ~5-8% body fat and run consistently at 100 miles (or more) a week, you are not anywhere that close. Trust me. This is kind of even standard for competitive college distance runners - and even they are likely making mistakes that hold back their development (diet, drinking, running too many miles at too fast of a pace, etc.)

Yet we can take someone who is 20% body fat, and runs 10 miles a week. You will find this person finishing an 100 mile ultramarathon. It's not that uncommon, if the time cutoffs are liberal. 18 minute miles is walking pace.

The author even mentions he didn't think he was obese. He just didn't know the reality of things, I'd argue. He had to have this concept of willpower (concentration) to learn. And to change his diet and training habits. And even his understanding of what is possible.

It's magical to chalk things up to grit - but there is so much process of knowing how the lows feel during a race, what to eat while training, how fast to do each run while training, how much to run while training, how to stay hydrated while racing, how to get nutrition while racing, etc.

"Tough" or "in control of self" to me is too emotionally loaded.

Edit: I almost feel bad writing this because it takes some of the magic that gets marketed about it. But this is a science-oriented crowd and should be exciting to know there is more of an opportunity for the objective than a lot of people believe.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#39
post #29

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#40

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

Look at the consistently great 100 mile trail runners in the US - Ian Sharman, or Jeff Browning. Year after year. Look at how thorough they are. They are coaches because they know what to do and then they execute.
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