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Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

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Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#71

Post by gmuller »

HorizonXP wrote: post #15

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

Pretty sure Olson throws some carbs in during races (gels): http://www.timothyallenolson.com/2013/04/10/nutrition/

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#72

Post by jmull »

majelix wrote: post #32
jmull wrote: post #28

I'm sorry, but this is all gobbledygook. Nice ad for "sword" sportfood products, though. For one thing, running 100 mile races isn't a very good standard for willpower or self control. There is virtually zero use for this capability, so whether you spend 5-10 hours a week to do so or not isn't really a question of self control. It's a question of what activities/hobbies you want to pursue in your free time. Staying f…

> There is virtually zero use for this capability [running 100 mile races] That's a major point of the article, given it's discussion of the spillover effect: "The bottom line: Practice self-control in one area of your life, and you can apply it in other parts, too."

It's nice that practicing willpower improves willpower, even across activities.

But that doesn't suggest that's the best way to do it generally, or that running in particular is an effective or efficient way to do it.

Look, I get it. I run and it takes time so there's pressure to justify it.

But I don't see why the basic truth isn't enough: he enjoys it and it staves off his feelings of impending mortality. (In this case, I suspect he may also be trying to monetize it, but who knows.)

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#73

Post by LeifCarrotson »

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

There's a significant distinction between racing at the limits of your physiology and the limits of your commitment to the sport and your training going into the race.

I think the latter may be more interesting and useful: not many can afford the time commitment to eating, sleeping, and training to the max. But when a high-school kid takes 30 seconds off his 1600m PR in the meet with the rival school? That's just because he didn't know he had more available.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#74

Post by revelation »

oh_sigh wrote: post #61
revelation wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is dangerous nonsense. Is it possible to run ultra marathons on fat? Of course, you have enough fat stored for many many of those. Is it in any way amenable to a good performance? Not at all, and you don't need a biology PhD to realize that. The limiting factor in endurance sports is rate of oxygen uptake, fat metabolism takes more oxygen per energy yielded and is therefore strictly less efficient than deriving…

Half marathons are right at the very limit of depleting your liver glycogen stores(100-200g). Anything beyond that, you better be eating quick carbs during your exercise, or you will start burning fat.

Well yes, that's why I picked that distance :) For a good performance, you want to be replenishing continuously anyway.

And you are always burning fat. Human minds like to break it up into nice progressive steps or state machines but the actual body is just a highly parallel beast. Just that as you get closer to VO2max, the proportion shifts dramatically in favor to glycogen over fat.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#75

Post by rimliu »

sushisource wrote: post #56
ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

Yeah, it's a little frustrating to have some person say to me "Oh yeah, I ran a marathon too!". Ok, yeah, you completed it... six hours slower than I did. You walked a marathon. I'd disagree though that the grit/toughness thing to me is too emotional. My marathon time is 3:38 - reasonably fast for an amateur, but nothing blazing. ~8 minute pace. I know that getting that time faster is 100% about my commitment level.…

I walk a marathon in about 6 hours and 12 minutes. Do you run it in 12 minutes?

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#76

Post by [deleted] »

alistairSH wrote: post #47
mirkules wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

You really have to try different brands and flavors to find what works. It seems to be very personal. I have friends who can't use gels, and instead eat chewable gummies instead (one swears by straight gummi bears, others use the Gu and PowerBar prodicts). Personally, I've switched to mostly liquid nutrition, currently using a custom blend from Infinit. For 6+ hour races, I'll supplment with a PBJ sandwich or a bar o…

[deleted]

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#77

Post by ErikAugust »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #73
ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

There's a significant distinction between racing at the limits of your physiology and the limits of your commitment to the sport and your training going into the race. I think the latter may be more interesting and useful: not many can afford the time commitment to eating, sleeping, and training to the max. But when a high-school kid takes 30 seconds off his 1600m PR in the meet with the rival school? That's just bec…

Certainly a fascinating component.

There is also the case of the people who can rise above what their physiological markers predict, somewhat consistently - and then conversely, people who are strikingly under performing.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#78

Post by barkingcat »

mirkules wrote: post #39
Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

I prefer these dare fruit gummies (http://www.darefoods.com/ca_en/product/realfruit-gummies-med...) over the energy chews that people in my city likes (and widely advertised here) (http://www.clifbar.ca/products/clif-shot-bloks) - it tastes way better and doesn't make me gag. Everyone is a bit different just try some different ones.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#79

Post by logicallee »

nicky0 wrote: post #62
logicallee wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marathoners, cross country skiiers) out of billions of people are bumping up against physiology The human race didn't fight tooth and nail for 40,000 years to give everyone education, a code of laws and civilization, safe lives that include both work and leisure, so that I could bump into the limits of my physiology. How is that a normative goal? There ar…

You're probably one of those people who would happily exist as a brain in a jar wired directly to the internet.

nah, exercises 2-3 days per week is great. Not going to bring me to the limits of my physiology though :)

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#80

Post by proee »

sushisource wrote: post #56
ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

Yeah, it's a little frustrating to have some person say to me "Oh yeah, I ran a marathon too!". Ok, yeah, you completed it... six hours slower than I did. You walked a marathon. I'd disagree though that the grit/toughness thing to me is too emotional. My marathon time is 3:38 - reasonably fast for an amateur, but nothing blazing. ~8 minute pace. I know that getting that time faster is 100% about my commitment level.…

Well then I'm sure it's frustrating when a professional who runs a Marathon in close to 2 hours, hears you say the same thing.
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