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Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

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Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#41

Post by gopalv »

HorizonXP wrote: post #15

I'm a bit evangelical about low-carb, high-fat (LCHF) diets nowadays, especially keto. Personally, I'm not at the fitness level where I could conceivably run a marathon. Maybe a 5K or a half. But the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers, and having his wife help him reach the finish. This guy: https://youtu.be/96VZFklUM_Q runs ultra marathons, using fat for fuel. He leaves his fellow comp…

> Maybe a 5K or a half ... the article mentions him hitting walls as he hit certain mile markers,

Knowing where your walls are ... that's been one of the self-reflection exercises for me. Because it is an extremely personal limit & moves about with weight, food intake, sleep debt, hydration and local weather.

The physical sensation of hitting the wall is somewhat orthogonal to all the other health benefits - it is an extremely accurate read of your physical condition on that day & tells you how you're doing.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#42

Post by jmull »

mankash666 wrote: post #9

Research suggests a genetic preponderance towards physical fitness. With self control, you can make it to what your body can maximally achieve. But no amount of self control can guarantee the finish of an ultra-marathon if you're genetically not designed for it. PBS/Nova [1] took a shot at the question - "Can anyone run a marathon?", and found a certain lot more likely due to their genetics. [1] http://www.pbs.org/wg…

I think 12 of 13 participants started and finished the marathon. One washed out during training due to persistent injuries.

So, almost anyone can finish a marathon, with motivation and preparation. I can't remember for sure, but I think the participants had about a year and were given some excellent coaches whom they met with regularly.

Ultras require substantially the same kind of training as marathons, though you'll certainly have a different fueling and pacing strategy.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#43

Post by gopalv »

mirkules wrote: post #39
Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

> The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked

I used to puke anything I had when I ran.

My digestion couldn't handle food when I was running. It was a mix of slight heartburns (& coffee) causing a sensitive stomach which didn't like food moving around when I ran and partly because I was running so hard my stomach didn't have enough blood to process the food.

Several weeks of eating peanut butter mini sandwiches with their crusts cut off, banana slices and oranges dipped in salt, while running at a moderate pace, I managed to tame the tummy.

That said - I don't think I like the taste of GU gels, but like coffee or beer, you get used to it (& the extra 100Kcal feels like it goes directly to your legs).

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#44

Post by kentt »

ErikAugust wrote: post #38

I run ultras and mountain races. I ran one this Friday night into Saturday morning - a 12 hour overnight trail race where I managed 100K (62mi) in 11 hours and 23 minutes. Anyway, let's throw out willpower and even genetics for a second so I can bring up something: In today's age, virtually no one is even remotely close to their physiological limits. Literally, hundreds of people (elite marathoners, a few ultra marat…

> 18 minute miles is walking pace.

Thank you for pointing this out. I'm so sick if people telling me they ran a marathon only to find out they walked. I'm totally fine with that being an accomplishment to finish, but it's entirely dissimilar to those who were racing.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#45

Post by mmmpop »

Danihan wrote: post #18
TheAlchemist wrote: post #13

Willpower or not, I feel like running is really a great thing to do. Will Smith once said (or quoted, don't remember) that one should two things - run and read books. I definitely agree with that. I used to practice sports a lot, football and basketball and that had a positive effect on my teamwork ability. However, only when I started running I noticed how much this sport can influence one's life. There are no short…

How does talent have almost no influence? There are many genetic factors that would impact how strong a runner is. You mention football and basketball, which are essentially a series of short sprints. Sprints are _much_ healthier for people than 100-mile marathons that will essentially bathe your body in cortisol. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mou...

As fairly average athlete myself, I think he's implying running is one of those sports that pure grit and determination can get you further ahead of the pack compared to many other sports. I'm just a skinny punk but I sure pass a lot of really buff guys when I run 5K races. Probably comes from a lifetime of running my mouth :)

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#46

Post by dogruck »

I have finished six or seven 100 mile races.

I've observed that the only apparent constant among all finishers is above average fitness, a reasonable approach to food and drink while racing, and a total commitment to finishing.

Every race has some bare foot runners and some Hoka devotees. You see fat people and thin people. Old and young.

Every finisher suffered tremendously, yet he or she refused to quit.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#47

Post by alistairSH »

mirkules wrote: post #39
Swizec wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone currently training for the SF Marathon, here's my perspective on low carb and glucose packets. Low-ish carb is great. It helps you endure long runs overall and it's a good habit in general. Especially for recovering after the race and getting all those calories back. During the long run itself however, glucose packets are absolutely necessary. You run out of glycogen stores every 45 minutes or so. That's w…

The first time I tried a packet (GU gel) in a practice run, I nearly puked. It tastes like liquefied bubble gum and the taste stuck with me for the next 30 minutes. Which ones work well for you?

You really have to try different brands and flavors to find what works. It seems to be very personal. I have friends who can't use gels, and instead eat chewable gummies instead (one swears by straight gummi bears, others use the Gu and PowerBar prodicts).

Personally, I've switched to mostly liquid nutrition, currently using a custom blend from Infinit. For 6+ hour races, I'll supplment with a PBJ sandwich or a bar of some sort.

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#49

Post by TheAlchemist »

mmmpop wrote: post #45
Danihan wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does talent have almost no influence? There are many genetic factors that would impact how strong a runner is. You mention football and basketball, which are essentially a series of short sprints. Sprints are _much_ healthier for people than 100-mile marathons that will essentially bathe your body in cortisol. http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-evidence-continues-to-mou...

As fairly average athlete myself, I think he's implying running is one of those sports that pure grit and determination can get you further ahead of the pack compared to many other sports. I'm just a skinny punk but I sure pass a lot of really buff guys when I run 5K races. Probably comes from a lifetime of running my mouth :)

Not exactly.

In football / basketball, so much depends on chance, your team, your opponents, the referee etc. You can work more / better and still end up with worse results. Or vice versa.

In running, you mostly compete against yourself (unless you are a top athlete, but that's another story). You set your goals, you work to achieve them and it depends only on you. So yeah, grit , determination or however you call it, will make you progress, and you can measure it with an easy objective function (your time vs your past times, distance).

Re: Learning to run 100-mile marathons thanks to the science of self-control

#50

Post by Grustaf »

majelix wrote: post #34
Grustaf wrote: post #17

”Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning to program” Sure, and so did thousands of others. Bill Gates clearly didn’t become a modern Croesus because he was a better programmer, this is just trying to shoehorn Microsoft into the at once self-evident and ludicrous 10000 hour idea.

> ”Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning to program” Here's the full quote: "Bill Gates spent thousands of hours learning how to program computers—but he only had that opportunity because he had the good fortune of having parents who supported his education." I think you're in violent agreement that 10,000 hours isn't sufficient.

That only gives the reason how he could spend thst time, it doesn’t explain that this time was at best a part of his success.
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