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US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

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Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#211

Post by stuaxo »

tormeh wrote: post #199
simias wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not much of a conspiracy nut but I don't have any issues with the excerpt you quoted. Those "reality" TV shows are famously heavily scripted and edited, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did script the "skip dessert to attend to vital business" to some degree. Maybe he did have to leave early because of a scheduled meeting but it just didn't have the same ring to it? Now you could say that it's not a big dea…

>Now you could say that it's not a big deal either way and I would tend to agree but one could argue that there's a slippery slope when you muddy the line between reality and fiction in the minds of the audience of a mass media. In reality television that line has passed the horizon a while ago.

Where is the line? Some shows like The Only Way Is Essex in the UK was confusing when it first came out, later on we found out it wasn't "reality tv", but a new genre "curated reality".

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#212

Post by bpodgursky »

gumby wrote: post #206
bpodgursky wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military jet fly-overs cost basically nothing at the margin. Pilots need X hours of air-time a month to stay trained, so it costs very little to do it over public events. It's money that will be spent either way.

So it doesn't matter where they are flying? The comment to which you are replying isn't talking about the cost, but the propaganda value. Plus if they have to fly, let them fly over a military base, not a populated area.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If they're going to fly anyway, and it doesn't cost extra, why not get free advertising out of it and entertain some people? I don't get what the downsides of the flyby are.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#213

Post by ryanx435 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #76
gumby wrote: post #61

The money and involvement have had quite an effect. Just look at the percentage of combat films Hollywood makes and compare to 30 years ago. To go by Hollywood the country is on a war footing. And don't forget other entertainment industries like sports. The Pentagon paid millions of dollars a year just for cross promotion with NFL football (not for recruitment advertising): "honor our troops" and the like. On the oth…

The ludicrous propaganda of military jet fly overs, national anthem spectacles, huge flags, and people in the military standing on the side of the field at private for profit sports game in a stadium paid for by taxpayers for the team owner's benefit is hilarious.

Its not really that hillarious when you consider how effective it has been. The "support our troops" propaganda has successfully disconnected the average citizens perspective of the soldier from the war it's self. Compare how returning veterans from Vietnam were treated to how returning Iraq/Afghanistan veterans have been treated for the past 15 years.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#215

Post by majormajor »

Animats wrote: post #140
gumby wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know: when I was a kid I was taught that the countries that needed these ritualistic pledges of patriotism and flag worship were the totalitarian ones (USSR, GDR, Turkey, Imperial Japan, etc). It was a shock to see my kid have to learn a flag prayer in the USA. And sport is a private sector activity -- why should the government be involved?

"Flag Prayer"? The Pledge of Allegiance? Only US citizens should recite the pledge of allegiance. Non US citizens owe their loyalty to another country. But schools don't do that, because it would mean identifying US citizens.

The day after a holiday celebrating independence from another nation is a hilarious one on which to be defending a trumped-up loyalty oath.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#216

Post by gumby »

bpodgursky wrote: post #212
gumby wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So it doesn't matter where they are flying? The comment to which you are replying isn't talking about the cost, but the propaganda value. Plus if they have to fly, let them fly over a military base, not a populated area.

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. If they're going to fly anyway, and it doesn't cost extra, why not get free advertising out of it and entertain some people? I don't get what the downsides of the flyby are.

The point is not to make exposure to military hardware, and especially the sanitized and sexy parts of the military, a routine element of civilian entertainment.

There's another comment of mine down thread where I distinguish recruitment advertising from propaganda. That explains my point.

And the cost is not the issue. In fact due to how missions are structured I doubt flying over a football stadium is in any way net cost free.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#217

Post by gumby »

ryanx435 wrote: post #213
lotsofpulp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ludicrous propaganda of military jet fly overs, national anthem spectacles, huge flags, and people in the military standing on the side of the field at private for profit sports game in a stadium paid for by taxpayers for the team owner's benefit is hilarious.

Its not really that hillarious when you consider how effective it has been. The "support our troops" propaganda has successfully disconnected the average citizens perspective of the soldier from the war it's self. Compare how returning veterans from Vietnam were treated to how returning Iraq/Afghanistan veterans have been treated for the past 15 years.

Not to mention, if you talk to anyone who was in theatre, how they were treated while actually in the war. There's been massive profiteering at the expense of the troops.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#218

Post by joemi »

gumby wrote: post #210
joemi wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, we're not rationing food and supplies, but I'd argue that many people think there is an existential threat that needs combating. The war on terror, which you mentioned, can be viewed as another front to the war in Iraq/Afghanistan (or vice versa), and I think you'll find that many people in the US view them as directly related. The threat a lot of people perceive is from "terrorists" or "Islam" or even just "mi…

Which brings this full circle: a state of lowgrade permanent fear is created and maintained through jingoistic propaganda in order to control the populace and keep the money flowing with minimal dissent. Since the US doesn't face an existential terrorism threat (compared even to the 70s), the idea of a few have been created -- and are just remote enough that people will be afraid but not ask questions. Jeez reading t…

I guess we differ in our perception of whether the US is at war with anyone or not.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#219

Post by 3131s »

gumby wrote: post #153
fudged71 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't watched a single current-day military movie since 9/11. I just assume it is all propaganda in some way or another.

according to the article the involvement includes such "military movies" as Meet the Parents, America’s Got Talent, Oprah and Jay Leno to Cupcake Wars . It's like High Fructose Corn Syrup -- in everything whether you expect it or not.

> Meet the Parents

Ah yeah, isn't the stern father in that movie supposed to be ex-CIA or something?

As of 2009 Fox News indicated that the DoD has over 27,000 "recruitment, advertsing , and public relations" employees. Even the Fox writer back then seems slightly perturbed by the bursting-at-the-seams state of the war industry.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/02/05/pentagon-spending...

There is also good evidence from the Stratfor hacks that the DoD is engaging in astroturfing.

And if you're younger they come to your school and speak at assemblies, call your home phone every few months (at least in my time), etc. I once humored the army recruitment guys by talking on the phone for about 2 minutes, but I was absolutely clear that I had no interest in joining before hanging up. A day later though, two soldiers in uniform showed up at my parent's house and demanded to see me!

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#220

Post by ryanx435 »

gumby wrote: post #217
ryanx435 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its not really that hillarious when you consider how effective it has been. The "support our troops" propaganda has successfully disconnected the average citizens perspective of the soldier from the war it's self. Compare how returning veterans from Vietnam were treated to how returning Iraq/Afghanistan veterans have been treated for the past 15 years.

Not to mention, if you talk to anyone who was in theatre, how they were treated while actually in the war. There's been massive profiteering at the expense of the troops.

What? No.

I was treated great during all of my deployments, so were all of the various units I was attached too. Actually they made a huge effort to treat us better during the actual fighting than during any training. I mean, it's a war zone so no luxuries or anything, but overall my time deployed was my favorite time of my enlistment.

I don't know what you're talking about

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