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US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

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Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#111
post #69
post #3

As a movie buff this doesn't surprise me at all. I'm still waiting for THE movie about the US intervention in Iraq, the same kind of movies that Apocalypse Now, "The Deer Hunter" and even Rambo I were for the Vietnam war. I think my wait will be in vain.

Not a movie, but "Generation Kill" comes pretty close? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0995832/ As for movies, there's "In The Valley of Elah" comes to mind: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0478134/ And more generally, about modern warfare, I suppose "Eye in the Sky" warrants a mention: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2057392/

Generation Kill is unwatchable, in the sense that you'd rather see the characters die at the hands of Freddy Kruger or Jason Voorhees, than bother to care about, oh, i dunno, a plot line or whether it's based on real journalism?

Same goes for The Hurt Locker, among others. So many, are simple emotional pandering, set against a dubious backdrop, without dealing with the premise of the backdrop. American Sniper simply feels like an effort to influence, even with Clint Eastwood's involvement (or perhaps even more so, with it).

Live from Baghdad is a shade too early, and the wrong Iraq war, but captures the joke-like atmosphere of the post-hoc rationale for even going to war in the region.

Similar era war movie, but different conflict, is Restrepo, which is a documentary. And, unfortunately, maybe it's accurate enough to be completely unflattering. No one appearing on screen is particularly charismatic or inspiring, and so too the story it tells is uneventful, no surprises.

But these jingoistic movies suck because very nearly all movies in general mostly suck. Everything seems like long-form, substance-lacking music videos, or student exercises in cinematography and digital effects editing. Oh well. Keep waiting for any good movie, but don't hold your breath. They are few and far between, since the advent of digital production techniques.

It's just how things are now. Now that all footage makes it make it past the film-developer-chemical bath, it's easy to undo, and selectively retry. It's too easy to make a movie, so it's very easy to make meaningless movies.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ludicrous propaganda of military jet fly overs, national anthem spectacles, huge flags, and people in the military standing on the side of the field at private for profit sports game in a stadium paid for by taxpayers for the team owner's benefit is hilarious.

Why is that hilarious. The alternative would be a nation that's not behind it's troops. The us would likely not be a super power. US citizens greatly benefit off the super power status. Seems like the military is acting in the citizens best interest.

I'm not sure if you are making this comment seriously, or intending it as hyperbole.

If you are serious, it's important to note that at the time of its founding, US law forbade the creation of a national military, precisely because of the fear of too much centralized control of lethal force.

In the centuries since, we've seen that this fear was very well founded. The founders did not want to prevent the US from having a strong military, but they wanted the rallying and dispatch of it to require significantly more consensus than even a super-majority vote from congress.

Imagine if the Iraq war had required even a super-majority vote... millions of lives would not have been lost. Imagine if the Vietnam war had required a super-majority vote how many more people would be alive today.

Knee-jerk use of power is arguably as American as a six shooter drawn quickly from the holster at the slightest provocation. Many associate this sort of hot-tempered use of force with power and machismo.

But is it really an indication of strength to rob the people of trillions of dollars for a folly in Iraq without true democratic approval? I'd argue that it's a sign of weakness and of failed checks and balances.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#113
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you might be over estimating how much the British care about having/not having an empire. If you can get around the paywall, this might be worth a read: https://www.ft.com/content/a9c45baa-1dc6-11e7-b7d3-163f5a7f2...

> I think you might be over estimating how much the British care about having/not having an empire. Even if the linked piece is correct (tending to agree somewhat), it is written in a modern context with respect to Brexit. The James Bond novels were created in the early 50's when the empire was still a real thing that was actually breaking up, and before 'multiculturalism' was really a thing in any serious way (see m…

The Bond novels do explore Britain's role in the world but for the readers were also a tantalising glimpse into a post-austerity world following the rationing and privations of WWII. Bond visits places (e.g. Monte Carlo, Jamaica, etc) that seemed exotic at the time but would now be viewed as 'boring' by a gap year student. IMO, the Harry Palmer spy stories [1] (e.g. The Impress Files) better reflect the cynical end of empire feeling.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Palmer

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#114

"The CIA even helped to make an episode of Top Chef that was hosted at Langley, featuring then-CIA director Leon Panetta who was shown as having to skip dessert to attend to vital business. Was this scene real, or was it a dramatic statement for the cameras?" Wow. Good work on the FOIA retrieval, but I'm utterly out on the hyperbolic speculative tone. The editor undercuts the good journalism being done here when they…

I'm not much of a conspiracy nut but I don't have any issues with the excerpt you quoted. Those "reality" TV shows are famously heavily scripted and edited, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did script the "skip dessert to attend to vital business" to some degree. Maybe he did have to leave early because of a scheduled meeting but it just didn't have the same ring to it?

Now you could say that it's not a big deal either way and I would tend to agree but one could argue that there's a slippery slope when you muddy the line between reality and fiction in the minds of the audience of a mass media.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#115

"The CIA even helped to make an episode of Top Chef that was hosted at Langley, featuring then-CIA director Leon Panetta who was shown as having to skip dessert to attend to vital business. Was this scene real, or was it a dramatic statement for the cameras?" Wow. Good work on the FOIA retrieval, but I'm utterly out on the hyperbolic speculative tone. The editor undercuts the good journalism being done here when they…

Hey, they've come a long way since Jackson Pollock [1]. While I do enjoy quite a bit of modern art, I was nonetheless disappointed to discover that some of the "tastemakers" of '60s/'70s abstract expressionism were US federal three-letter-acronym agencies [2]. The saga, apparently, continues to this day. Caveat emptor, indeed. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock#Critical_debat... [2] https://www.indepen…

Art is one of the businesses that is conducive to money laundering.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/13/arts/design/art-proves-att...

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ludicrous propaganda of military jet fly overs, national anthem spectacles, huge flags, and people in the military standing on the side of the field at private for profit sports game in a stadium paid for by taxpayers for the team owner's benefit is hilarious.

Why is that hilarious. The alternative would be a nation that's not behind it's troops. The us would likely not be a super power. US citizens greatly benefit off the super power status. Seems like the military is acting in the citizens best interest.

I'd prefer that the troops be behind our nation and not the other way around, thanks!

Anyway, how did you equate "military spending on propaganda" to mean that "the nation is behind the troops"? Obviously the nation is not behind them if they have to brainwash people into behaving a certain way.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#117
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think about Argo? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argo_(2012_film) pure CIA propaganda

Umm, it was propaganda but it was Hollywood propaganda about Hollywood. That's why this rather minor movie won Best Picture because Hollywood loves movies about Hollywood. As to it being pure CIA propaganda , you'd have to explain more about that.

it might be reference to simple fact that US embassy was covertly used by CIA to actively destabilize the region and revolution, plus support corrupt dictator - something no embassy should ever be used for. Not sure why CIA was naive enough to think they are safe there when rest of country is burning.

Iranians made a mistake that they imprisoned US staff - they should just seize all belongings and kick them out of their own country. But one must admit that common fate to spies caught during war - execution (also done by US troops in WW II) was not done on any of them and all returned home eventually.

Of course look at media portrayal of Iran back then and even now, when places like Saudi Arabia are big US friends and you hear no loud critics about them... what a sad, pathetic joke

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#118
post #84

"The CIA even helped to make an episode of Top Chef that was hosted at Langley, featuring then-CIA director Leon Panetta who was shown as having to skip dessert to attend to vital business. Was this scene real, or was it a dramatic statement for the cameras?" Wow. Good work on the FOIA retrieval, but I'm utterly out on the hyperbolic speculative tone. The editor undercuts the good journalism being done here when they…

> I think the authors are also making the unsupported assumption that every government / Hollywood cooperation incident is a propaganda op, instead of far simpler explanations like "Joe in Langley publicity gets to brag to his family that he made the Top Chef episode happen." This presumes a (IMHO dubious) philosophical position that at high enough levels (e.g. director of agency), public actions don't automatically…

On that level then you're calling everything a high level individual does publicly propaganda which dilutes the term into meaninglessness. Willful public manipulation is interesting, but if you cast the net so wide as to say everything public is manipulative, you can't be justified in being upset at all.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#119

So, if you want DOD support and resources and voluntarily go to them for help, they will have a say in the script? To me it seems that anti-establishment Americans are so eager to find evidence of "censorship", "police state" and "tyranny" that they forget what do these words actually mean.

DoD policy is to "approve" scripts for movies that request DoD assistance, and has been for a long time.

Production companies are free to get another countries' military to provide assets under different terms. The French and Israeli military have provided filming support for US movies before.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ludicrous propaganda of military jet fly overs, national anthem spectacles, huge flags, and people in the military standing on the side of the field at private for profit sports game in a stadium paid for by taxpayers for the team owner's benefit is hilarious.

Why is that hilarious. The alternative would be a nation that's not behind it's troops. The us would likely not be a super power. US citizens greatly benefit off the super power status. Seems like the military is acting in the citizens best interest.

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