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Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

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Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you've heard of this little thing called The Law of Accelerating Returns. It's the law.

Wow, I finally understand the underlying theory of people who invest in the stock market. Thanks. I will be rich now.

Please stop posting unsubstantively like this on HN.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Falling demand, really? "After delivering 25,051 vehicles during the first quarter, it pushes deliveries to “approximately 47,100” according to the company. [For the year.] It represents a 53% increase over deliveries during the same period last year and both Model S and Model X deliveries were higher than during Q2 2016" Maybe a plateau could be argued looking at the graph here. https://electrek.co/2017/07/03/tesla-…

"After delivering 25,051 vehicles during the first quarter" ... they delivered 22,000 vehicles in the second quarter. That sounds like a 12% decline to me. It sounds like a 12% decline to Goldman Sachs. I am not sure what you call it.

Car sales can be seasonal, or like Tesla said in their press release, they where supply constrained by their new 100 kWh battery. Just comparing numbers from the last two quarters is not really very informative. The previous quarter was an increase, the one before that a decrease, the one before that a substantial increase. More important is a trend. And I see a plateau when looking at the mast four quarters.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#193
post #62

There is no way on god's earth that Tesla can ramp up production like that. I suspect the first cars that they sell will roll off the VP tools and not off the main lines anyway. With a lack of product maturation the quality of the first cars will be appalling too. I'd bet that the guys at the coal face are wanting to kill their PR people right now for making promises that they know will get broken. Disclosure: work i…

There was an article recently where some higher ups talked about the engineering. They described focusing work on the factory itself instead of the product with the idea being that every time you improve or fix the factory, you gain many upsides in the final output. Can't find the article but I was an interesting read

(Warning: biased source)

Electrek has an article quoting it. Elon was describing the idea of designing the "Machine that builds the Machines"[0].

“We realized that the true problem, the true difficulty, and where the greatest potential is – is building the machine that makes the machine. In other words, it’s building the factory. I’m really thinking of the factory like a product.”

[0]:https://electrek.co/2016/06/01/elon-musk-machines-making-mac...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#194

How long do the batteries last? I've heard replacement batteries will be $20,000.

According to Tesla [0], 8 years is the minimum expected lifetime. After that point the battery will still work just fine, but the capacity can drop below 80% of total.

[0]: https://www.tesla.com/blog/infinite-mile-warranty

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#195
post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People said the exact same thing when Musk announced SpaceX. Then they said no big deal after the Falcon 1 worked, and laughed when Musk said he was going to land the Falcon 9 on a barge in the ocean, then he did. Next they said there was simply no way SpaceX would be able to refly a used first stage, which they've now successfully done twice. History of his accomplishments show us "industry knowledge" doesn't really…

Musk seems to set high goals with the full intention of meeting them, but shrugging it off if he's wrong in the end so long as progress was made. In the end the goal doesn't matter, just the progress, which was certainly affected positively by the goal.

Entirely agreed. He loves to set lofty goals, and he does not always achieve them, but sometimes he does! Either way, he's unafraid to challenge virtually any status quo or existing understanding of things. This is why industry experience while relevant, doesn't always matter. Also, he moves his top talent between his companies at will, giving him an edge over other companies.

I've got a friend who has worked for Aerospace Corporation for close to 11 years as a structural engineer. He people when they have to stop removing things to prevent rockets from exploding (aka a rocket scientist). He told me ~5 years ago there was literally no way SpaceX could land orbital class rockets. Yeah, he doesn't say that anymore.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#196
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's more, a lot of the materials science and metalworking "lessons learned" (particularly when it comes to working with aluminum) at SpaceX are available to Tesla.

Really not the case. Space X have built, um, not many rockets. Tesla are planning to churn out hundreds of thousands of cars. The key isn't being able to do it (as someone else said joining metals is a solved problem), it's being able to do it with high quality and in a reliable way. Do you think Space X joining techniques are optimised for making 100k joints in a factory environment?

You are entirely incorrect. SpaceX perfected friction stir welding for large sheets of aluminum for their fuel tanks. That tech was transferred that technology entirely to Tesla, who happen to make cars from large pieces of aluminum (Model X and S).

https://electrek.co/2015/05/24/spacex-transferred-novel-weld...

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#197
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we fire up the dirty, old oil-fired power plants as the generators of last resort. But it's probably still a net win if that extra electricity is going to power electric cars, because a power plant is more efficient than thousands of internal combustion engines. See: https://waitbutwhy.com/2015/06/how-tesla-will-change-your-li...

It's not just a question of thermodynamic efficiency. Cars have emission control systems (catalytic converters, etc.) that mitigate some of the pollutants, and perhaps most importantly, use a much cleaner fuel (the heavy fuel oil burned in power plants produces soot, sulfur compounds, etc. which the more highly refined hydrocarbons in gasoline do not).

Cars are not as dirty as they used to be, but the internal combustion engine is still incredibly inefficient, and has only a narrow band where it runs at optimal efficiency.

It is of course possible to make power plants even dirtier and less efficient, but it's also possible to make them cleaner and more efficient, which is of course what we should be doing.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#198
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and then you ignore that a cheap ev can't be the only car for a person, specially out of san fran. so now you have two insurances. two garages or live well enough to have two street parking. two maintenance bills. etc. etc.

Why can't a cheap EV be the only car for a person? Most people drive I drive a four door sedan currently. It doesn't handle 100% of my motoring needs, that doesn't mean I need to own a moving van for that 0.1% of the time I need it. I just go rent it. It also isn't able to be checked as luggage when I travel, and so I rent a car when I arrive at my destination (if needed). I don't pay someone to transport the car to…

we both know you never used any of the m3 performance features. ever. even that one time when you think you did when you stepped on the gas after the red light.

m3 has such tight bearings that all it does outside of a track is break internal engine parts 80% earlier than any other consumer car.

now, even if you think renting a car that one time a month you need more than 100 miles, for most people it's a hassle they want to avoid more than you want to spend money.

and lastly, buying a new 530e will keep you carbon negative for two decades at least. not buying a new car is infinitely better than even buying electric.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#199
post #62

There is no way on god's earth that Tesla can ramp up production like that. I suspect the first cars that they sell will roll off the VP tools and not off the main lines anyway. With a lack of product maturation the quality of the first cars will be appalling too. I'd bet that the guys at the coal face are wanting to kill their PR people right now for making promises that they know will get broken. Disclosure: work i…

> There is no way on god's earth that Tesla can ramp up production like that

I'm not clear what like that you are referring to, or what would be a more reasonable plan.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reminded a little of how the Blackberry board supposedly watched the iPhone announcement and insisted it was fake, as there was "no way" someone could build and profitably sell a phone with that feature-set. Tesla might not do what they're promising. Hell, they probably won't do what they're promising. But pronouncing something impossible on the basis of industry experience can be a dangerous thing. Some things a…

Even just using Tesla's numbers, it's unlikely they can ramp up production. They currently produce ~25K Model X and S per quarter, and they're having supply issues with battery packs. (see the other, recent thread on them) How in the world are they going to be producing 20K Model 3s by December, without cannibalizing their more profitable existing sales, and judging by their own previous growth rate and demand proble…

> they're having supply issues with battery packs.

They are building a huge factory for making battery packs in Nevada. That's already operational and will be more so by December. I imagine that's part of the solution.

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