Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those employees are still paying their own personal money for the car. They're as much "real customers" as you or me.
I suspect they're not paying what customers will pay and they're likely to be leases since they're effectively pre-production models and you'd have to be a big knucklehead to bet on the resale value of a pre-production Model 3.
Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
181–190 of 218 posts
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can only speak for the brakes. Teslas use regenerative braking on the motor before falling back to traditional frictional brake pads as I understand it. Essentially the motor is put in reverse and that drains off speed. That means less wear on the brakes and so they last much, much longer than an ICE car.
My ICE car has regenerative braking. So this is not something exclusive to the EVs.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
People said the exact same thing when Musk announced SpaceX. Then they said no big deal after the Falcon 1 worked, and laughed when Musk said he was going to land the Falcon 9 on a barge in the ocean, then he did. Next they said there was simply no way SpaceX would be able to refly a used first stage, which they've now successfully done twice. History of his accomplishments show us "industry knowledge" doesn't really…
Musk seems to set high goals with the full intention of meeting them, but shrugging it off if he's wrong in the end so long as progress was made. In the end the goal doesn't matter, just the progress, which was certainly affected positively by the goal.
Some goals are more strategic than realistic, and I think anyone can learn what strategic goals look like from Musks' ventures.
In my view strategic goals don't have the same form as SMART goals:
Traditional Smart - Specific, Measurable, Attainable, Relevant, Time-bound
Strategic Smart - Specific, Measurable, Advancing, Relevant, Terminable
The two differences, Advancing and Terminable, reflect the idea that strategic goals are geared towards innovation, not iteration. Advancing means that you don't actually know whether it is Attainable. Terminable means that the goal may be cancelled without major disruption to the business.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
No, this is not a good plan at all, it's incredibly risky. To get the car all road legal it needs to be crash tested - that is usually what the pre-volume builds are used for. If they fail (and they sometimes do, because you can't do a finite element analysis on an assembly as complex as a car in the variety of scenarios that you would crash test it) then you need to reengineer the car. This usually means panel gauge…
Aren't we already past that point, though? This seems a bit like worrying that the horses might bolt today because the barn door was left open yesterday.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids. Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.
> Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. You need to know the context and back story of this before claiming that it's something Tesla "recommends". Tesla did not offer maintenance initially, and it was not in the books until it became a top-requested and top-discussed subject on owner message boards. The company then reluctantly admitted that fear of…
The year 2 service is almost identical to year 4, and year 1 includes a fluid service that isn't covered in later years.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#186There is no way on god's earth that Tesla can ramp up production like that. I suspect the first cars that they sell will roll off the VP tools and not off the main lines anyway. With a lack of product maturation the quality of the first cars will be appalling too. I'd bet that the guys at the coal face are wanting to kill their PR people right now for making promises that they know will get broken. Disclosure: work i…
Can't find the article but I was an interesting read
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would have more confidence in this announcement if it was not made a day before Tesla announced that they are experiencing falling demand for their existing line and barely hit the bottom of their production forecast. Their initial "hand over" is to employees, not real customers, so it is really just internal testing and does not indicate anything about when actual deliveries will begin. Hitting delivery deadlines…
Falling demand, really? "After delivering 25,051 vehicles during the first quarter, it pushes deliveries to “approximately 47,100” according to the company. [For the year.] It represents a 53% increase over deliveries during the same period last year and both Model S and Model X deliveries were higher than during Q2 2016" Maybe a plateau could be argued looking at the graph here. https://electrek.co/2017/07/03/tesla-…
That sounds like a 12% decline to me. It sounds like a 12% decline to Goldman Sachs. I am not sure what you call it.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#188Earlier quoted context omitted.
People said the exact same thing when Musk announced SpaceX. Then they said no big deal after the Falcon 1 worked, and laughed when Musk said he was going to land the Falcon 9 on a barge in the ocean, then he did. Next they said there was simply no way SpaceX would be able to refly a used first stage, which they've now successfully done twice. History of his accomplishments show us "industry knowledge" doesn't really…
What's more, a lot of the materials science and metalworking "lessons learned" (particularly when it comes to working with aluminum) at SpaceX are available to Tesla.
The key isn't being able to do it (as someone else said joining metals is a solved problem), it's being able to do it with high quality and in a reliable way. Do you think Space X joining techniques are optimised for making 100k joints in a factory environment?
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#189Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is it possible that Musk has solved the problem, much like he or his employees have solved countless other tech problems, but Musk also knows what makes a sexy headline. Spot welding is hard to sell as flashy and new. If you can't do it on mars, it might not make good headlines.
Spot welding isn't hard, and wasn't claimed to be hard. Mixed Materials welding and joining is Hard (steel + aluminium/mild steel + high strength steel/ etc).
Panels will not be consistent - they never are (and you'd be surprised at the variation). Rivets will tumble in feed tubes or get trapped in escapements. Vision systems will get confused by ambient light or reflections at certain times of day. Weld spatter will accumulate on tips, and frequent tip dressing will change weld parameters (timing, pressure, current etc). Adhesives will be effected by temperature, humidity. Batches of sealer might not be consistent. Weld timers will fail. Power supplies will fail. Flow drill screws will deform, go off centre and be a bitch to get right. Laser welder lens will accumulate weld crud. People will mis-load parts. PIA bits will come in below the required quality. Tools will get shimmed wrong. Robots will be badly programmed.
All of this stuff will take time to get right. It isn't impossible, but it is very difficult to get a line performing reliably. Tesla will be integrating a lot of new technologies, and at volumes that they are not used to, in an area with no serious history of car building, in a high wage state. I doubt they can get the people to manage the line and maintain this equipment.
Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's California for you: The people who use the lanes, by and large, don't need them[1], and simultaneously, California subsidizes and encourages electric car driving while having, by far, the absolute worst electrical infrastructure in the country, with no real plan to improve it[2] Don't worry, somehow, they are saving the environment in all this, despite the fact that most cars these days probably put out less e…
> Don't worry, somehow, they are saving the environment in all this, despite the fact that most cars these days probably put out less emissions than a family that ate too many beans. First, this comparison is wrong. Cars generate roughly 5,000 liters of of CO2 per gallon. A human passes about one liter of gas per day, maybe two. But even if you were right, what's the point of this comparison? We can eliminate the CO2…
That is a typical passenger vehicle, which is also quite old. Not a current vehicle. SEe the calculations, which explicitly states: "This is representative of the light duty passenger vehicle fleet as a whole, including both new and existing vehicles. "
I'm kind of uninterested in participating in this global hate fest further, but let me quantify this for real for you:
I have a lab certified co and co2 monitor i use as part of a supplied air system (For spraying wood coatings that contain isocyanate).
If i take a car from the late 80's or early 90's, put it in the garage with the monitor, and start it, the monitor will go off in few minutes telling me it's unsafe.
If i take a car produced today, and put it in the garage, and start it, it takes many hours before that happens. In fact, depending how well sealed the garage is, it won't happen at all.
(as an aside, this also means it's become much harder for people to commit car based suicide unless they have a very well sealed car, etc)
So i'm going to go with "This statistic is true but grossly misleading". It tells you nothing about what converting a newer car to an electric car does in terms of emissions.
Worse, given that it is mostly caused by existing vehicles, and even there, it is mostly caused precisely by the vehicles this subsidizing will do nothing to replace. It is precisely the people i talked about you need to get to drive electric cars. Not the rich people driving very up to date low-emissions vehicles anyway.
So you can cite this kind of stuff all you want. It doesn't make the plan of rich people lanes any better for the environment.
(Which is why people go for these very silly proxy and indirect support arguments to make themselves feel better).
"But even if you were right, what's the point of this comparison? We can eliminate the CO2 emissions from cars, but we can't do that to people, and we really need to cut these emissions a lot, or the earth will cook. "
I actually completely agree, but that's completely irrelevant to giving special treatment in HOV lanes to people who mostly owned cars that were not the problem anyway!
IE you'd be much better off saying "if you trade in your car from 1970 for an electric car, you get a sticker", instead of "if you trade your 2016 PZEV for a 2017 tesla, you get a sticker".