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Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

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Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#101

Post by Godel_unicode »

schiffern wrote: post #63
sadface wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but surface-level biology is pretty much carbon neutral. All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. Obviously there are edge cases, but by and large Global Warming is happening because we're pulling carbon out of the ground and putting it in the sky.

The catch is, modern agriculture isn't limited to "surface-level biology." > All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. This is true, but also misleading. When you include the nitrous oxide, methane, diesel fuel, and loss of soil carbon, agriculture is actually net CO2e positive. >Agriculture, Forestry, and Other Land Use (…

So you agree that engine emissions are the problem then, good.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#102

Post by bowersbros »

csdreamer7 wrote: post #99
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Norway. I've ridden in a Tesla taxi. Yes, the upfront cost of the car is high. But on the other hand, the gas and maintenance costs make up for it. I completely understand the switch. Plus, the ride is nice, comfortable, and quiet for the passenger.

Do you have numbers for the maintenance? Consumer Reports and insurance companies claim that maintenance is expensive for Teslas, even among luxury cars.

As I understand it, repairs are expensive, but general maintenance is less, because there isn't as much to maintain.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#103

Post by maxsilver »

jjeaff wrote: post #66
foota wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If demand substantially increases then more baseload capacity will likely be built. And it looks like New York peaks at around 4-5pm, with a drop off around 8-10pm. EVs will likely charge at night, meaning they won't have as much impact on the peak. Edit: source for load http://mis.nyiso.com/public/htm/isolf/20170705isolf.htm

They will have to setup some kind of timer or incentive to charge off peak, because otherwise, most cars are going to be plugged in around 5 to 6 right when people pull into their garage.

Most cars already do this. In a Chevy Volt and Ford C-MAX Energi, for instance, you tell it what time you leave for work in the morning (say 7:00am), and then it automatically waits to charge until the middle of the night to ensure the battery is full when you leave the next morning.

Even if you plug it in right at 5pm, it doesn't actually start drawing electricity until later at night.

This feature it set just one time only, and works automatically forever afterwards. It's been common on most electric cars since 2013.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#104

Post by maxsilver »

DannyBee wrote: post #15
pmalynin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming they're not now. 8-9 AM work-days it seems that the HOV lane is only marginally faster. Going back from Mountain View to San Jose at 4-5 is equally as bad with traffic grinding to a halt near the Montegue Express exit in any lane. It's kind of ridiculous actually because even if you're in a 4 person carpool its pretty horrific.

That's California for you: The people who use the lanes, by and large, don't need them[1], and simultaneously, California subsidizes and encourages electric car driving while having, by far, the absolute worst electrical infrastructure in the country, with no real plan to improve it[2] Don't worry, somehow, they are saving the environment in all this, despite the fact that most cars these days probably put out less e…

> None of the very large number of day laborers, etc, could afford an electric car

Used Nissan LEAF's start around $7k, even in the Bay Area. With $0 down, that works out to about $125/month car payment. For the vast majority of drivers -- if you can afford a regular car, you can easily afford an electric one instead.

> Yes, the math says that if everyone in california drove an electric car, we'd be in trouble. Even if they only charge off peak.

An electric car can charge on power draws all the way down to 1.4kW (that's a standard 15amp 3-prong US household outlet). An electric car charging likely uses less electricity per second than the Air Conditioner or Clothing Dryer you already have in your home.

There is no doomsday scenario for the electric grid. Electric Cars simply don't draw enough power to do any of the things you've described. Especially once you factor in that their charging mostly happens off-peak anyway.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#105

Post by schiffern »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #101
schiffern wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The catch is, modern agriculture isn't limited to "surface-level biology." > All of the carbon you exhale to the atmosphere comes from the food you eat, which gets its carbon from the atmosphere via photosynthesis. This is true, but also misleading. When you include the nitrous oxide, methane, diesel fuel, and loss of soil carbon, agriculture is actually net CO2e positive. >Agriculture, Forestry, and Other Land Use (…

So you agree that engine emissions are the problem then, good.

I'm sorry, you lost me. What do you mean?

It is undeniable that transportation is a major contributor to the greenhouse catastrophe, accounting for 27% of U.S. emissions and 14% of global emissions.

I'm a huge proponent of electric cars and solar panels, but let's not kid ourselves that they'll solve climate change all by themselves. Those are necessary, but not sufficient. We also need to figure out how to grow food without long-term desertification of the continent.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#106

Post by FussyZeus »

maxsilver wrote: post #98
nradov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If electric cars are so simple, why is the Tesla Model S so unreliable? https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-S/reliability-1095 Conversely, the Toyota Prius is one of the most reliable cars. Yet it is mechanically complex with both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, plus a CVT. So clearly engineering skill and manufacturing quality are bigger factors than the drive train.

Because (personal opinion) the Tesla Model S isn't a particularly great car. Their success is largely in marketing, network, and visual appeal, not in the product itself. If you pick a better (albeit less appealing) electric car, the reliability rate skyrockets. For instance, using your own source -- https://www.truedelta.com/Nissan-LEAF-vs-Tesla-Model-S-relia...

^ This. The Model S has a lot more in common with a mid-high range Mercedes or a low end Ferrari. Anybody who owns an exotic car like that will tell you, you do not buy those for the reliability.

It's also worth noting the Model S is, and is marketed to the audience for, a performance car. When you put down that kind of money, you're going to drive it like one. If you drove a Honda like a Ferrari you'd likely break a whole lot of it's "reliable" parts too.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#107

Post by davexunit »

Cookingboy wrote: post #40
Pica_soO wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maintainenace bill on a EV? There is near nothing in them. Battery. Check. 4 E-Motors. Check. End of List.

I didn't realize that EVs no longer use tires, brakes, brake fluids. Tesla recommends a $700/yr maintenance package, this "EV doesn't require maintenance" myth needs to die. Pretty much the only routine you save from ICE is the oil change per 10k miles.

Here is the Chevy Bolt maintenance schedule from GM: https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dyna...

Tire rotations, cabin air filter replacement every so often, and a coolant fluid replacement at 150k miles.

Nearly all braking is done via regenerative braking and not friction brakes so brake maintenance won't be needed for a very long time.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#108

Post by falcolas »

Kluny wrote: post #73
Munkum wrote: post #62

There is no way on god's earth that Tesla can ramp up production like that. I suspect the first cars that they sell will roll off the VP tools and not off the main lines anyway. With a lack of product maturation the quality of the first cars will be appalling too. I'd bet that the guys at the coal face are wanting to kill their PR people right now for making promises that they know will get broken. Disclosure: work i…

Commenting to remind myself to check back later and see if you were right!

By clicking on thr time string in the post, you will get to a page which will let you favorite the actual comment, without your own comment.

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#109

Post by Siecje »

arethuza wrote: post #86
nradov wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If electric cars are so simple, why is the Tesla Model S so unreliable? https://www.truedelta.com/Tesla-Model-S/reliability-1095 Conversely, the Toyota Prius is one of the most reliable cars. Yet it is mechanically complex with both an internal combustion engine and an electric motor, plus a CVT. So clearly engineering skill and manufacturing quality are bigger factors than the drive train.

How unreliable are ICEs these days - maybe its just me, but I've never had an engine problem in nearly 20 years of owning cars. Electrical problems, suspension problems, drainage problems - had all of them but never had a problem with the actual engine.

What is a drainage problem?

Re: Tesla Model 3 Hits Production

#110

Post by calafrax »

dwighttk wrote: post #93
izacus wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how realities of production get beaten by "ideas". Yes, Tesla has excellent design and approach. That won't help them magically build in volume. Or quality - even very expensive Model S cars aren't really a paragon of build quality in their class. Steve Jobs didn't promise production of 300mil iPhones in a year when they announced it.

I don't know if you've heard of this little thing called The Law of Accelerating Returns. It's the law.

Wow, I finally understand the underlying theory of people who invest in the stock market.

Thanks. I will be rich now.

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