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US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

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Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#191

Post by ChuckMcM »

pvg wrote: post #170
ChuckMcM wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I flew next to a navy Commander who was responsible for coordinating the use of Navy ships and personnel with television and movie production companies. His take on it was that the Navy wouldn't participate if it made the services look bad or show them to be operating in a manner that wasn't in service to their mission. It seemed like a reasonable trade-off. He also mentioned that CGI was making the use of actual har…

That's not a take, it's longstanding policy. Apocalypse Now is a well-known example (link goes to google books, shortened because their real URLs are infinite): http://goo.gl/szAMGZ

Thanks for the link, the referenced article would be so much more balanced if it included it as well.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#192

Post by georgecmu »

_pan9 wrote: post #154
wil421 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right it's outrageous the military gets to attend for profit games and for America to show its pride. It's not like they don't do the same exact things in other Countries... We should just have military parades and drive our missiles and tanks around D.C. Just look how Russia and North Korea do it.

As someone who's actually visited Russia (and is married to a Russian), you can't compare Russia and the US at all. Russians deeply respect the people who lost their lives in the past but in the present, a few years military service is mandatory for all males, so service doesn't have nearly as much glory. There's absolutely nothing like the disturbing hero worship Americans have. As for military parades, typically th…

in the present, a few years military service is mandatory for all males, so service doesn't have nearly as much glory

It's been only one year for a decade or so.

In the past, the attitude toward conscripted service (rather than a career choice as a commissioned officer) was ranging from a nuisance to something to be avoided at all costs, depending on the class and region the conscript was from.

Now while it's considered as a nuisance by many, military service is also seen as a type of social elevator by others, particularly in the Caucusus. Drafts from Chechnya and Dagestan are generally oversubscribed and having to pay bribes to be conscripted is not uncommon [1].

There's absolutely nothing like the disturbing hero worship Americans have.

Seconded. Furthermore, the threshold for being considered a hero is very high. Being called a hero just for putting on the uniform is unthinkable.

[1] http://vestnikkavkaza.net/articles/society/34432.html

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#193

Post by [deleted] »

specializeded wrote: post #102
bjourne wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These orgs are supposedly there to serve the interests of the American people. It's none of their fucking business how movie writers decides to portray them. History reeeeally seriously tells us that it is a big deal when the state is able to influence the media in a pro-military fashion.

I mean, agreed and understood. This is bad in the sense pro-military influence & "rub my back I'll rub yours" is bad in general, but I'm not seeing the directed efforts that would justify the tone or title of the article. It smells like clickbait, and now I smell like military apologism from saying so!

[deleted]

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#194

Post by CalChris »

saiya-jin wrote: post #117
CalChris wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm, it was propaganda but it was Hollywood propaganda about Hollywood. That's why this rather minor movie won Best Picture because Hollywood loves movies about Hollywood. As to it being pure CIA propaganda , you'd have to explain more about that.

it might be reference to simple fact that US embassy was covertly used by CIA to actively destabilize the region and revolution, plus support corrupt dictator - something no embassy should ever be used for. Not sure why CIA was naive enough to think they are safe there when rest of country is burning. Iranians made a mistake that they imprisoned US staff - they should just seize all belongings and kick them out of th…

It was. Also, the CIA did help in the production of Argo. [1] And in fact the US (the Dulles brothers actually) overthrew Mosaddeq. [2] We absolutely deserved what little we got in the hostage crisis. I'm a big Carter fan but as President not as person he symbolized the responsibility and his office deserved this. It's a shame because Reagan was much worse than Carter vis a vis those relations. He actively supported Iraq in their border war.

Since Iran was breaking off relations with the US this wasn't exactly a mistake. To this day, we still do not have normal relations with Iran. Bill Clinton was able to re-establish relations with Vietnam. Obama re-established relations with Cuba (although the Republican Senate refused to confirm an Ambassador). While Obama and Hillary Clinton were able to negotiate with Iran we don't have diplomatic relations.

Mosaddeq was a democratically elected nationalist who toured the US trying to garner support (that he'd never get because of British Petroleum). It's a damned shame we couldn't respect that.

[1] https://news.vice.com/article/cia-helped-produce-top-chef-co...

[2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-rol...

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#195

Post by bitJericho »

gumby wrote: post #151
Animats wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flag Prayer"? The Pledge of Allegiance? Only US citizens should recite the pledge of allegiance. Non US citizens owe their loyalty to another country. But schools don't do that, because it would mean identifying US citizens.

Yes, that's what I mean. Pledging allegiance to a flag is dangerous (remember the roman legionaries swore allegiance to their standard, not to the republic, and took the sides of their generals in civil wars). Perhaps to you, steeped in it, it doesn't look like a prayer, but to an outsider it appears little different from a religious invocation. These differences my seem subtle or even trivial, but history has shown…

Have you read the pledge? The flag stands for "the republic". It is a pledge to the United States itself...

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#196

Post by bitJericho »

CodeMage wrote: post #145
Animats wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Flag Prayer"? The Pledge of Allegiance? Only US citizens should recite the pledge of allegiance. Non US citizens owe their loyalty to another country. But schools don't do that, because it would mean identifying US citizens.

I would respectfully disagree that US citizens "should" recite the pledge of allegiance every day at school. I understand that you probably meant something along the lines of "it makes no sense for non-US citizens to recite the pledge of allegiance at all", but I'd still like to address the point you happened to write. I'm firmly convinced that no child, citizen or not, should engage in a daily ritual like that, espe…

Nobody should make the pledge because it's a downright lie. Liberty and justice do not exist in the US.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#197

Post by coldtea »

Most major movies are, if not "CONSUME", "OBEY", etc billboards (like in "They Live"), at least party-line affairs promoting the establishment.

Between promoting the prevalent mores (instead of criticizing them), military manipulation to promote "national interests" like in TFA, product placements, and plots for your inner 13 year old in movies for 40 year olds, with the rare exception it's a long way since the 60s-70s and films like "The Network", "Apocalypse Now" and the rest..

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#198

Post by dragonwriter »

coldtea wrote: post #197

Most major movies are, if not "CONSUME", "OBEY", etc billboards (like in "They Live"), at least party-line affairs promoting the establishment. Between promoting the prevalent mores (instead of criticizing them), military manipulation to promote "national interests" like in TFA, product placements, and plots for your inner 13 year old in movies for 40 year olds, with the rare exception it's a long way since the 60s-7…

“The Network” and “Apocalypse Now” were, and are remembered now because they were, rare exceptions in their own time as well.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#199

Post by tormeh »

simias wrote: post #114
fixermark wrote: post #59

"The CIA even helped to make an episode of Top Chef that was hosted at Langley, featuring then-CIA director Leon Panetta who was shown as having to skip dessert to attend to vital business. Was this scene real, or was it a dramatic statement for the cameras?" Wow. Good work on the FOIA retrieval, but I'm utterly out on the hyperbolic speculative tone. The editor undercuts the good journalism being done here when they…

I'm not much of a conspiracy nut but I don't have any issues with the excerpt you quoted. Those "reality" TV shows are famously heavily scripted and edited, it wouldn't surprise me at all if they did script the "skip dessert to attend to vital business" to some degree. Maybe he did have to leave early because of a scheduled meeting but it just didn't have the same ring to it? Now you could say that it's not a big dea…

>Now you could say that it's not a big deal either way and I would tend to agree but one could argue that there's a slippery slope when you muddy the line between reality and fiction in the minds of the audience of a mass media.

In reality television that line has passed the horizon a while ago.

Re: US military intelligence agencies have influenced over 1,800 movies and TV shows

#200

Post by tnecniv »

protomyth wrote: post #50
autokad wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah exactly. also you didn't need a freedom of information act to know this. I remember generals / DOD officials talking about it in a TV interviews (1996 independence day, 2007 transformers). directors are overly focused on realism for better or for worse, so a lot also goes to providing stock footage for inspiration, advice, and fact checking like 'is this aircraft meant for the role its portrayed in the movie'. e…

To give a source: Watch some of the behind the scenes on The Stargate TV series for a practical primer on what the Air Force required. It surely wasn't some requirement that everyone in the AF was a saint.

Yeah, traitors in both civilian and military leadership as well as just plain red tape were pretty common plot elements in that show.

That's a show I should watch again.

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