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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#391

Post by tajen »

vidoc wrote: post #380
tajen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

> At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions. In other words, 80% don't. I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make and I don't want to interpret your words as a claim that 20% is far too much. Until we get an implementation of Capitalism that proves its superiority to all other models and demonstrates its ability to regulate itself, it's probably safe to tolerate alternative points…

Your reasoning about 20-80 doesn't hold. If, say, 20% people are violent and 80% aren't, does that mean you're 80% safe from violence? Of course not.

It's exactly what we are talking about: Those 'commies' go well beyond oral discussions, they are materially hostile, with the ranges of consequences I explained above.

This is why it's called extremism: They are not tolerant with other points of view.

Anyway. You don't have to understand the problem for that problem to exist. Look at the other comments, there's enough testimonials of the same thing to attest that it exists. It's just that you belong to the group of people who deny it, downplay the problem, or attempt to show 'it's ok because others are doing worse', which doesn't help solving the problem.

The point is, since there is a specific risk for managers/owners of companies, I wouldn't recommend an entrepreneur to choose France. Let France solve its hostility to capitalism first, and see if people are less hostile in 5 years.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#392

Post by gcb0 »

graniter wrote: post #388
gcb0 wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

don't do airbnb. for longer than 30 days there are hundreds of real state places that find much better place for half the airbnb price. absolutely everyone will speak fluent English (differently from airbnb). only downside is a deposit like any other rent

The big advantage is avoiding the catch 22 the above poster experienced. With AirBnB you can get a place without having a French bank account, which requires a French address. And you can book a place in the future before you arrive in France which is important for some visas that require you have housing established before you go.

thats exactly what a rental agency will do for you, but for a fraction of the cost.

they only require one or two month deposit, and any document from your previous/home country.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#393

Post by eolides »

tom_mellior wrote: post #335
literallycancer wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not get a bank account in a different Eurozone country? SEPA transfers are required to be the same price as domestic in those countries.

1. That's not necessarily easy for people coming from outside the Eurozone. 2. For people from inside the Eurozone, it might still not work: I've had a work contract in a Eurozone country that specified that I had to have a bank account in that country . Not sure why, not sure whether it's legal, but not necessarily something you want to fight. 3. In France, it would not work as a practical matter. In other countries…

A few years ago, my bank did not issue RIB online and I only had one left but needed two of them. So I just fired up LaTeX and did my own, correctly formated according to my IBAN and BIC number. It was perfectly fine and I used this files until I left my bank.

The main problem living in france with a foreign account is that most companies (such as phone and energy companies) does not accept foreign account for SEPA debit mandate (IBAN starting with anything else than FR).

It is a major problem for the development of european fintechs development in france, such as N26 german fintech.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#394

Post by antod »

user5994461 wrote: post #237
d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

Heh, I work with a couple of Frenchmen (in NZ) and they always get a good chuckle when they hear Kiwis complain about UK bureaucracy :)

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#395

Post by antod »

mattmanser wrote: post #77
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have Trump, but other than Switzerland, any of the European countries are within a generation of being ruled by an autocrat with far more power than Trump. From Franco in Spain, De Gaulle in France, Hitler in Germany and even some the of post WWII Chancellors were pretty autocratic. In addition, Europe seems to have far more tolerance for government intervention in everyday life. In addition, especially in…

It's 72 years since Hitler or Mussolini, how's that within a generation?

Maybe he meant they turned into fascist states ruled by Hitler or Mussolini within a generation?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#396

Post by Chris2048 »

rjsw wrote: post #369
Chris2048 wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a bit annoyed about this. European forms always ask about the US, even if there's no reason to suspect I've ever been a US citizen - I assume this is purely because America has the pull?

They ask because it is more work to deal with US citizens. Your parents could have been visiting the US when you were born.

I mean if Chine suddenly wanted to tax its citizens worldwide, would every European country change its forms to accommodate?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#397

Post by Chris2048 »

Chris2048 wrote: post #396
rjsw wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They ask because it is more work to deal with US citizens. Your parents could have been visiting the US when you were born.

I mean if Chine suddenly wanted to tax its citizens worldwide, would every European country change its forms to accommodate?

China

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#398

Post by someSven »

user5994461 wrote: post #329
palunon wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

Not really. You change languages, currency, you need new bank accounts, new health insurance, completely different educational system. All administrations are different. The culture is also a shock. You will never find any of the grocery or shop you used to buy. A French going to the UK is not much different than a Mexican going to the USA. The only advantage is that you don't risk being deported by the police if the…

What's it with the bank accounts? You can transfer money within the EU without any problems. I pay my rent in Spain from a German bank account. Though, getting wired internet is another thing, these companies seem to ignore European law.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#399

Post by on_and_off »

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

Disclaimer : I might be biased : I am currently waiting for my H1B to process in order to move to San Francisco.

I have worked in France for most of my career so far. My first hand experience is of course limited (I only have 5 years of experience) but I really feel that the FrenchTech is overblown. There are some great startups but they are extremely rare.

We have started hiring non french people in the startup I work for one year ago and the culture clash is tremendous. Things that have bothered me for a while are doubly strange for them :

- Everything takes a LOT of time and nobody prioritizes making the process more efficient. There are many bottlenecks.. after discussing with colleagues in non French companies, they have all found solutions in order to solve them. Here there is no will to do so. So it can take weeks to merge simple changes.

- very large aversion to new technology. Pretty much constantly lagging 1 to 2 years behind the rest of the community.

-LOTS of office politics

I don't expect any of these to become perfect in another country but I am more than ready for a change of air.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#400

Post by vidoc »

tajen wrote: post #391
vidoc wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions. In other words, 80% don't. I am not quite sure what point you are trying to make and I don't want to interpret your words as a claim that 20% is far too much. Until we get an implementation of Capitalism that proves its superiority to all other models and demonstrates its ability to regulate itself, it's probably safe to tolerate alternative points…

Your reasoning about 20-80 doesn't hold. If, say, 20% people are violent and 80% aren't, does that mean you're 80% safe from violence? Of course not. It's exactly what we are talking about: Those 'commies' go well beyond oral discussions, they are materially hostile, with the ranges of consequences I explained above. This is why it's called extremism: They are not tolerant with other points of view. Anyway. You don't…

> Your reasoning about 20-80 doesn't hold. If, say, 20% people are violent and 80% aren't, does that mean you're 80% safe from violence? Of course not.

You might want to read your initial comment one more time then, my observation was related to your statistic about anti-capitalist 'opinions', but now you seem to have switched to 'violence'. The point I am making is that debating ideas is important and having a constructive critic of capitalism is necessary, that's why I have no problem with your statistic. Unless 20% of the population is ready to take up arms to install the dictatorship of proletariat, but I am sure you know this isn't the case.

> This is why it's called extremism: They are not tolerant with other points of view

Unlike you, who couldn't possibly be suspect of intolerance to other view points as demonstrated by your rhetoric.

> Anyway. You don't have to understand the problem for that problem to exist. Look at the other comments, there's enough testimonials of the same thing to attest that it exists. It's just that you belong to the group of people who deny it, downplay the problem, or attempt to show 'it's ok because others are doing worse', which doesn't help solving the problem.

You realize I quoted one line about statistics, and commented it, don't you?

In case you are curious, and since you have taken the freedom to cluster me in a group already, and seemingly know what my opinion is on your brilliant diagnostic of the problems of France:

Having lived on both sides of the Atlantic, I'm fully aware that certain aspects of France, administrative or cultural, don't exactly make it the perfect place to create a business, that said, I'm not an entrepreneur myself and there are certainly a ton of other positive aspects that should not be overlooked. As for the rest of your depiction of France as the ultimate entrepreneurial hell, it's a bit too excessive to be significant.

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