Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#361

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 5:08 PM UTC

peterunold wrote: post #273

zmb_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to speak half decent French After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life,…

I'm currently somewhat fluent in 3 europeans languages and will soon attend a month long intensive course to beef up my 4th(french). Yes it's a bother but it's also the charm of Europe.

Surely the speaking of some other language is the charm? The lack of a common language is a pain.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#362

Post by d--b » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

mtremsal wrote: post #359

d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

Moving to the US was easier than navigating the French administration as a French citizen. I was able to open a bank account on day 2, without an ID. Obtaining the ID required a trip to the DMV, which while time-consuming, wasn't an especially complex endeavour. Only issue I ran into was the government shutdown, and that affected everyone.

I don't know how you did it. Every bank I went to asked me for 2 official ID documents (which I didn't have).

Getting a social security number was not particularly hard

Having no credit history was a pain in the ass.

DMV was annoying.

That my wife could not work on my visa was a problem.

The green card process was long and painful. Showing your genitals to a doctor to get a residency card was an unexpected and unpleasant part of the process.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#363

Post by Chris2048 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

tajen wrote: post #173

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

At least 20% of French people express capitalism-hostile opinions (and it goes well beyond Mélenchon voters). You face hostility as soon as you make money, with consequences ranging from being denied places in the kindergarten to the "petit Gregory" affair where the 5 years old son of a newly promoted team leader was drowned. I'm trying to show off as much as I can that I'm sponsoring poverty, donating a lot, making…

> I'm afraid of getting mugged

Who would mug you?!?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#364

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 5:37 PM UTC

richardknop wrote: post #352

user5994461 wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paris: Rent is 1000 to 1500 € a month for a 1 bedroom. Add the utilities and council tax on top. That's tough considering a typical salary of 40k/year is about 2k/month after all taxes.

Yeah. In London I pay £1800 for 1 bedroom in zone 1. But at least you can make £120k per year here as contractor so it's manageable. What's the contracting market like in Paris?

In the context of a London vs Paris comparison, there isn't a contracting market in Paris.

French companies don't hire individual contractors directly. It's part of the culture.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#365

Post by user5994461 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 5:53 PM UTC

rjsw wrote: post #334

tobltobs wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true for France. It might be easier for an EU citizen, but it is still a big waste of time. Getting a bank account still takes at least 3 visits. To hold a working card in your hand will take more then a month. Your driving licence is valid only for a year. And the Social Security nightmare is pretty much the same for everybody. And for the etc. prepare for that every bit will be a hassle.

I think that the parent comment meant that you can easily use a bank account from another EU country in France. Opening a French bank account isn't complicated either if it is with a multinational bank, I have never been inside a French branch of mine.

And the parent is mistaking, he's probably American.

You cannot use a bank accounts well across EU country. Banks are a very localized service, they provide specific account number formats and payment methods by country. It will be a huge hassle day to day when you want a SEPA transfer and the guy expects a RIB or a sort code.

It's worse with UK and Switzerland because they have a different currency. You really need a local bank account or you get bankrupted by the fees and the exchange rate. Incidentally they are the only places where there are the big tech and finance companies to work for.

Most banks are national. There are very few banks that have an international presence, with decent service at the offices.

The last time I went to a French bank in a different region than where I opened the account, they told me they can't do anything and I have to go to my "home" agency.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#366

Post by mrkrab » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 6:01 PM UTC

zmb_ wrote: post #175

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

> the ability to speak half decent French After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life,…

You'll take my own language from my cold, dying hands. I'm sure most Europeans feel the same. I'm not going to go around speaking fucking English. That will never ever happen.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#367

Post by tapatio » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 6:19 PM UTC

d--b wrote: post #362

mtremsal wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to the US was easier than navigating the French administration as a French citizen. I was able to open a bank account on day 2, without an ID. Obtaining the ID required a trip to the DMV, which while time-consuming, wasn't an especially complex endeavour. Only issue I ran into was the government shutdown, and that affected everyone.

I don't know how you did it. Every bank I went to asked me for 2 official ID documents (which I didn't have). Getting a social security number was not particularly hard Having no credit history was a pain in the ass. DMV was annoying. That my wife could not work on my visa was a problem. The green card process was long and painful. Showing your genitals to a doctor to get a residency card was an unexpected and unplea…

Did they cup them?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#368

Post by rjsw » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 6:20 PM UTC

user5994461 wrote: post #365

rjsw wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the parent comment meant that you can easily use a bank account from another EU country in France. Opening a French bank account isn't complicated either if it is with a multinational bank, I have never been inside a French branch of mine.

And the parent is mistaking, he's probably American. You cannot use a bank accounts well across EU country. Banks are a very localized service, they provide specific account number formats and payment methods by country. It will be a huge hassle day to day when you want a SEPA transfer and the guy expects a RIB or a sort code. It's worse with UK and Switzerland because they have a different currency. You really need…

I have UK and French accounts with the same bank. Both work fine for making payments in other EU countries. I can transfer money between them whenever I want (or spot a better exchange rate).

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#369

Post by rjsw » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

Chris2048 wrote: post #355

otoburb wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right about the US being one of the few countries in the world that still tax citizens and permanent residents no matter where they are in the world. You are also correct you should get some tax accounting advice to file your US taxes[ ]. Having said that, the US provides two mechanisms to offset US taxes when you are living abroad: 1) For single income earners, the first ~$100K is exempt or "non-reportable",…

I'm a bit annoyed about this. European forms always ask about the US, even if there's no reason to suspect I've ever been a US citizen - I assume this is purely because America has the pull?

They ask because it is more work to deal with US citizens. Your parents could have been visiting the US when you were born.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#370

Post by devdas » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 6:44 PM UTC

mrkrab wrote: post #366

zmb_ wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the ability to speak half decent French After having lived and worked in multiple EU countries, I'm convinced that language is the single biggest barrier to true freedom of movement of workers in the EU. In Germany, for example, you cannot assume any daily task can be accomplished without the German language. You're then faced with either constantly dealing with communication problems with everything in your life,…

You'll take my own language from my cold, dying hands. I'm sure most Europeans feel the same. I'm not going to go around speaking fucking English. That will never ever happen.

No one is going to do that. But having every government (and everything else mandatory) service available in a common language, regardless of country would be fantastic. Push the burden of language on the entities which can afford to absorb the cost best.