Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France • Hacker News Board

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#331

Post by tobltobs » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

d--b wrote: post #230

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

Migrating to Switzerland was a breeze. Everything was set in under a week. Founding a LTD was also easy. In France it took months to get everything solved for immigration (as a EU citizen). I am still struggling to solve those various puzzle pieces for founding a company. The kafkaesque RSI alone requires more time and effort then all the bureaucry in Switzerland together.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#332

Post by coredog64 » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

> which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one).

Don't they have the printers that will fill in your check?

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#333

Post by tobltobs » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

skrause wrote: post #321

maccard wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless. No visas, no registration as a foreign worker, just show up and tell the JobCenter you need a National Insurance Number (which took almost a month from the first phone call to getting a cancallation, to getting the number in the post). Getting a bank account was tricky though, most banks wanted a proof of address on a utility bill, but I couldn't sign up t…

> I moved to the UK (from Ireland). It was relatively painless. That's because both are EU countries (for now at least). Moving to France will also be much easier if you're an EU citizen, you won't have to deal with residence permits and your driver's license will also be valid.

You don't have to deal with residence permits but you will have to get a residence card, because without you will have lots of problems. Your driving licence is valid for one year, after that you have to convert your licence. Depending on what classes you have this will require medical tests and additional examinations.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#334

Post by rjsw » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

tobltobs wrote: post #330

palunon wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries. You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

Not true for France. It might be easier for an EU citizen, but it is still a big waste of time. Getting a bank account still takes at least 3 visits. To hold a working card in your hand will take more then a month. Your driving licence is valid only for a year. And the Social Security nightmare is pretty much the same for everybody. And for the etc. prepare for that every bit will be a hassle.

I think that the parent comment meant that you can easily use a bank account from another EU country in France.

Opening a French bank account isn't complicated either if it is with a multinational bank, I have never been inside a French branch of mine.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#335

Post by tom_mellior » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

literallycancer wrote: post #328

graniter wrote: post #216

I live and work in France and I am well versed in this type of Visa. It's a very nice arrangement, but it's still France. It's still dealing with the same administrative burdens for everything else. You don't get treated special, you just have a special deal. I've said before that if France wants to attract foreign talent what they need to do is assign someone in the French administration to help workers get establis…

Why not get a bank account in a different Eurozone country? SEPA transfers are required to be the same price as domestic in those countries.

1. That's not necessarily easy for people coming from outside the Eurozone.

2. For people from inside the Eurozone, it might still not work: I've had a work contract in a Eurozone country that specified that I had to have a bank account in that country. Not sure why, not sure whether it's legal, but not necessarily something you want to fight.

3. In France, it would not work as a practical matter. In other countries, you give people your IBAN in an email and you're set; in France, they require you to give them something called a RIB, which is a piece of paper (or a PDF) issued by your bank carrying your IBAN. Foreign banks do not issue things that would be accepted as a RIB in France, so your employer would say they can't transfer your money. Stupid? Yes! Everyday reality in France? Also yes, sadly.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#336

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:53 PM UTC

expertentipp wrote: post #23

Just a friendly reminder: as of today there has been a state of emergency in France for over a year now. We are talking about situation with regular army with full automatic assault weapons on the streets and police authorized to enter apartments without court order.

[deleted]

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#337

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #307

oblio wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France, as far as I know. They have no minority languages, even though they have, and used to have, minorities.

> France doesn't even recognize any other language than French within France Officially, France (and the Academy) only barely recognize the existence of French spoken in their former colonies, and even then only when it's convenient (to maximize the count of the number of French speakers). They go out of their way to try to "preserve" the French that is spoken by white French people in France itself as the only offic…

Historically, they treated other languages within mainland France just as badly, which is what the parent probably refers to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vergonha

My grandparents speak Breton too, though not with me. As children, they used to have their fingers smacked if they happened to say a word in Breton. Back then, the French of the Republic, one and indivisible, was to be heard in all schools and those who dared challenge this policy were humiliated with having to wear a clog around their necks or kneel down on a ruler under a sign that read: "It is forbidden to spit on the ground and speak Breton".[13] That's the reason why some older folks won't transmit the language to their children: it brings trouble upon yourself...

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#338

Post by lloeki » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:57 PM UTC

Luc wrote: post #325

grp wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll need to go to Paris for a medical check that you can do your job. All French employees must do this. And you have to do it every two years. Pee in a cup. Undress over there. Is it a joke? Never heard of that in 30 years..

They're not selling it very well. In certain industries, the company pays for you to go and get a thorough physical checkup every two years, on company time. It's the unions that negotiated this, it's a benefit to the employee.

Although as mentioned before the pee-in-a-cup part is optional, it saved a friend's ass. That allowed for detection that something was wrong, which prompted him to do more tests, and resulted in a diagnosis of a severe white-cell blood problem. Save for this check he'd be dead by now.

It may seem mundane when everything's OK, but thanks to this check many people discover they have diabetes, kidney issues, hearing or sight issues (both are tested at regular intervals) and can then take proactive actions to fix that, usually suggested during the last part which is the debrief with a doctor†. Similarly, that chat may look useless to healthy people but sometimes it help uncover psychopathological situations such as nascent burnout or depression.

Seriously, what's there to be so up in arms about it? It's all handled confidentially like every medical checkup, the employer can't see anything of it except a mention saying you're medically able or not able to do your job, it helps prevent drunkards driving school buses, and it may save or at the very least improve your life.

† Caveat: Some doctors do really suck and could care less. Sadly happens, but not all of them are bad.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#339

Post by literallycancer » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 2:58 PM UTC

rorykoehler wrote: post #197

peteretep wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I asked for a source on this it was him agreeing with a tangential talking point of May's. Can you source this more comprehensively?

You should google it for more infos. Here is a quote from the man himself: "If I am elected, France will launch a major initiative beginning this summer targeting the major Internet providers, so that they agree to the legal seizure of data from their encrypted services as part of the fight against terrorism"

Sounds like what a politician would say to get some more votes from the "I'm afraid and have no idea what encryption is" crowd, without actually having to do anything after the election.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#340

Post by rjsw » Mon, Jul 03, 2017, 3:05 PM UTC

coredog64 wrote: post #332

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

> which is also great fun if you're in a rush in Super-U and the person in front decides to pay with one). Don't they have the printers that will fill in your check?

They do but it is still slower than paying by card.