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Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

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Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#261

Post by raverbashing »

cm2187 wrote: post #235
raverbashing wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. It would be irresponsible to remove it now.

Not really. There is no more terrorism now than there has been for the past 50 years. We forget it but Europe, and France in particular has been constantly the target of violent terrorist attacks. The OAS for a while, then far left extremists and pro-Palestinian movements, then state-sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya), the Algerian islamists (FIS), now a broader stream of home grown islamism, and of course all sort of…

(Though you are right about past events) No thanks, I don't think there's an acceptable level of terrorism (as I also don't believe in draconian security measures)

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#262

Post by samer66 »

It should not be that personal. This a weird way to think of it, France is 20 million times different from the "France" of that person or persons, who decided you do not go there. I was turned down from getting an entry visa to a country when I needed it the most, yet go it later very easily for something that I was not very keen to travel for it. By the way, I went to France last month and loved every minute of it.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#263

Post by ptero »

apatters wrote: post #163
ptero wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Startups do well when they improve things for people who vote with their wallets (buying this or that service). Bureaucracies though are a completely different beast. Better value? Happier customers? They care not a bit. You need different levers to (sloooowly) move them.

What are those levers? Are you aware of any examples where an effort to move them was successful?

I think one common way is to get a high ranking bureaucrat to mandate the change. It is not a guarantee, but a good enabler. I suspect pride, shame (you still use paper receipts for this?), media or even bribes are used.

For examples, I would look at automating standard government functions (e.g., car registrations, toll collections, etc.). Putting those online leaves some clerks unemployed and is thus often resisted by default, so someone found a working path for each of those

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#264

Post by yardie »

corford wrote: post #46

It looks great on paper but the devil will be in the detail and how well they execute on the admin/bureaucracy side. If my experience a few years ago with the auto entrepreneur scheme and URSAFF are anything to go by, you'll need a lot of patience, the ability to speak half decent French and a sense of humour if you want to avoid ripping all your hair out :) I love France (have even married one of their citizens!) bu…

I definitely understand you in the banking thing. We found out a lot of their banks aren't actually banks but regional credit unions. Our bank in rive gauche was not the same bank in Picardi or Bordeaux. Getting new cards required us to drive down from Paris to our actual branch in Bordeaux.

We eventually transferred to a large multinational bank. It requires us to keep a lot of funds in their account. But I can deposit a check anywhere in France.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#265

Post by cm2187 »

raverbashing wrote: post #261
cm2187 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. There is no more terrorism now than there has been for the past 50 years. We forget it but Europe, and France in particular has been constantly the target of violent terrorist attacks. The OAS for a while, then far left extremists and pro-Palestinian movements, then state-sponsored terrorism (Iran, Libya), the Algerian islamists (FIS), now a broader stream of home grown islamism, and of course all sort of…

(Though you are right about past events) No thanks, I don't think there's an acceptable level of terrorism (as I also don't believe in draconian security measures)

There isn't a morally "acceptable level" of terrorism, rape, assaults, burglaries or pretty much any form of crime. But there is still nevertheless a balance to establish between surveillance/totalitarian state and a tolerance for some level of crime. An absolute zero level of terrorism means that the society is immune to some crazy guy taking the wheel of a lorry to run over people. To get there you need an unprecedented level of controls which I'd rather not even try to picture (and which cost I'd certainly not want to pay for with my taxes).

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#266

Post by otoburb »

graniter wrote: post #247
realusername wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While France isn't the best country in the world for easily paying your taxes, it's clearly much better than the US if it's what you are afraid of.

Actually paying French income tax is pretty easy; it's paying US taxes if you are a US citizen working in France that's hard. I'm not sure Americans know that they are taxed on their income wherever they earn it. All other countries only tax your income that you earn in that country. French citizens don't pay income tax on their salary they earn in the US, but the reverse is not true. Not only do Americans have to pa…

You're right about the US being one of the few countries in the world that still tax citizens and permanent residents no matter where they are in the world. You are also correct you should get some tax accounting advice to file your US taxes[]. Having said that, the US provides two mechanisms to offset US taxes when you are living abroad:

1) For single income earners, the first ~$100K is exempt or "non-reportable", known as the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion[1].

2) US tax treaties with other countries help to offset. Thus, if a US citizen/resident pays a lot of taxes in another country that would exceed or equal their amount in the US, provided the country has a reciprocal tax treaty, the person should not need to pay additional tax to the IRS[2].

Note that while this applies to US permanent residents too, there are immigration consequences if one lives abroad without the appropriate paperwork/authorization.[]

[*] Disclaimer: I'm neither a lawyer nor an accountant. Please consult at least the latter for your taxes.

[1] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/figu...

[2] https://www.irs.gov/individuals/international-taxpayers/tax-...

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#267

Post by muninn_ »

pedrosorio wrote: post #128
muninn_ wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, what? Have you been to the United States before? Everything, and I mean everything is incredibly cheap here. I'm just like an average dev in flyover country and I max out my retirement savings, bought a house, and can go buy a BMW and fill it up with <$2.00/gal gasoline, oh and that's just on my income. Doesn't include spouse. And after I fill up with gas I can go to an average grocery store that is far larger th…

"I can go to an average grocery store that is far larger than just about anything I've seen in all my European travels" How is this relevant?

Because it's ease of access to a large variety of inexpensive food.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#268

Post by muninn_ »

rockinghigh wrote: post #142
pedrosorio wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I can go to an average grocery store that is far larger than just about anything I've seen in all my European travels" How is this relevant?

It's also not true. Carrefour and Auchan stores in France can be the same size as the big Walmart stores in the US.

Right, which is why I said average. Average American grocery stores are nearby and sell a gigantic amount of food. And the quality is exactly the same or better.

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#269

Post by weberc2 »

graniter wrote: post #258
weberc2 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find European culture and history alluring, but I don't think Europe is somehow "more free" than the U.S., in particular, you guys have much more regulation and far greater taxes. Maybe you have a greater quality of life by certain measures, but I think the freedom point is hard to defend. Maybe I'm wrong?

I consider myself a highly patriotic American and I used to think that France was much less free than the US, but after living here I have a different view. There seem to be fewer extremes in France: not so many rich people, not so many poor people. No one seems to get too worked up about anything. You can't so easily go buy dirt cheap, low quality food/clothes/cars/housing that are just going to cause you problems l…

I like France, and I lived there for a short time (near Rennes) and just returned from a trip to Paris a few weeks ago. There is certainly a lot to like, my comment was only about the degree of freedom. Thanks for your thoughtful comment!

Re: Welcoming Tech Talent from Around the World to France

#270

Post by palunon »

user5994461 wrote: post #237
d--b wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am French and I went through the process of immigrating to both the UK and the US. While I agree that France is particularly painful about burocracy, what you describe is not a breeze elsewhere either. You have to compare with other systems, cause I don't know of any immigrants who can say "oh coming here was so easy". That is unless you're sent by a big company who takes care of everything.

As a French who migrated off, going to the UK was so easy. I can't begin to imagine the burden a non speaking French person would have to go through to migrate to France.

Note that immigration inside the EU is way easier than with other countries.

You don't need a visa, working permit, special bank account (for US citizens, since the bank must report income, etc, to the US gov), your driving license is valid, etc.

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