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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#421

Post by geofft »

Aron wrote: post #185
geofft wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People lose their job for all sorts of reasons, no crime necessary. If you're going to worry about people losing their jobs, why don't we start by talking about everyone laid off at Etsy, and importantly, the college kids who were informed two weeks before their internship started that no such internship existed any more? As for career and public shame: he's had a wildly successful career and significant public prais…

i.e. 'if they are powerful, nothing done to them can be called injustice' progressive.

As with most things in real life, my thoughts here are quite a bit more complex than a half-sentence inaccurate absurdist reduction plus an unrelated political label at the end. Are you interested in having discussions involving multiple complete sentences, or have I wasted my time replying?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#422

Post by geofft »

Zarath wrote: post #211
rburhum wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry dude, but that is not an acceptable answer. We live in a society - with moral and legal structures of what is acceptable. During my the life of this startup and the previous one I have gotten f'ed over royally by a small amount of individuals where they infuriated me incredibly. "nature" would have made me punch them in the face - but that is incredibly unacceptable behavior in a society or work environment. Yo…

I think most normal/adult people don't want to live in a world where you can't ask out your coworker.

What target population are you basing this on?

I would expect that the overwhelming majority of normal/adult women in tech want to live in exactly that world, and I certainly want to live in a world where roughly 50% of people in tech are women. So it only takes a few men to agree to make it the majority.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#423

Post by geofft »

aortega wrote: post #170
hendzen wrote: post #142

Caveat, McClure's behavior was bad. But seeing recent public floggings for misbehavior I now wonder if people are feeling a bit hypersensitive/cautious about any workplace conduct that could potentially be perceived as harassment. Case in point. You work at a technology company. You are attracted to another coworker, who is NOT your subordinate. Is there some manner in which it is acceptable to express your interest?…

>Or is this just not OK at all? You are asking single 18-30 year old who spend most of their waking hours at work, to not make any advance to the only females they probably see in the week. Good luck with trying to fight nature.

If this is really true (and I find this rather insulting, as an 18-to-30-year-old male), I'd argue that it's a good reason to diversify hiring beyond 18-to-30-year-old straight single males who have no life outside of work.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#424

Post by dang »

masondixon wrote: post #364
treehau5 wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a useless reply, and it has become pervasive. Technically anyone not a part of the solution is part of the problem. Instead maybe clarify on what you find objectionable to help everyone out, including parent.

Welcome to the progressive left...

Would you please not make this place even worse by adding gratuitous partisan slights to what is already a flamewar?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#425

Post by dllthomas »

fatbird wrote: post #352
dllthomas wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why patronize a prostitute for make believe alpha male abuse of one's position when one has the real thing every day? Because it's a lot less likely to get you in trouble (if we make it a lot less likely to get you in trouble).

Given the frequency with which VCs have gotten in trouble for this before this week, that doesn't seem like an important consideration.

I'm not certain I'm interpreting your comment as you intend. Do you mean that this happens a lot and people have rarely got in trouble for it?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#426

Post by saghm »

pvaldes wrote: post #374
saghm wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the more reason not to engage (or attempt to initiate) a sexual or romantic relationship with a subordinate or superior.

Well, the problem is that then all we would have is a closed caste system, that is a very undesirable situation in itself and much worse.

There are plenty of people of different social classes than you who don't work at the same company as you, so I don't think a social norm saying that you shouldn't ask out maybe a few dozen people you work with is a "closed caste system".

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#427

Post by Aron »

geofft wrote: post #421
Aron wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i.e. 'if they are powerful, nothing done to them can be called injustice' progressive.

As with most things in real life, my thoughts here are quite a bit more complex than a half-sentence inaccurate absurdist reduction plus an unrelated political label at the end. Are you interested in having discussions involving multiple complete sentences, or have I wasted my time replying?

With power comes great responsibility. If we want to move forward with the changes we want to see in the tech culture to something more hospitable to all, we need to highlight those people most responsible for shaping it when they behave poorly. It's inappropriate to be overly concerned about how the offending party is punished since they will likely recover and improve as people in the process. Or even in the case where this is not true, the benefit to the many of calling out their behavior is far more important. And anyway, losing your job and going through an apology/shaming shitstorm is not really that big a deal for someone with his resume. There are plenty of examples of people that went on to better things subsequently.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#428

Post by xupybd »

BrandoElFollito wrote: post #418
paulddraper wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it also rude to assume they don't want to go? If only there were a way you didn't have to assume, but could find out...

This may be a cultural thing, but inviting someone to go to church would be at least astonishing in France (and the rest of Europe). This is just not the place you go for a date. There could be some circumstances where this is possible ("hey, my church has its annual fiesta, plenty of people dressed up in a traditional way - you know, the famous one! Wanna come see that?", or a marriage/baptem/other family / friends…

Inviting someone on a date to church does seem odd. But what about the following:

Co-worker "What did you get up to this weekend".

Me "Just the usual. Lazy Saturday, church took up most of Sunday, what about you".

Co-worker "Not much just watched a few movies. You go to church? Really?"

Me "Haha yeah I do, you're welcome to check it out if your interested."

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#429

Post by cultofmetatron »

genieyclo wrote: post #213
macspoofing wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That's not right. Don't be stupid. People meet romantic partners and spouses at work all the time - are they all sexual harassers? The true answer is: "It depends".

Don't shit where you eat is a sensible, safe rule to live by; ymmv.

I live by this rule. But I also don't really have many opportunities to meet women outside of work either.

At this point I just accepted that I'm gonna be lonely for the time being and am biding my time to save up money and leave the Bay. A human connection and romance just isn't worth the social cost these days.

"Don't shit where you eat" is a good rule of thumb once you realize that its not a game you can win.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#430

Post by lancewiggs »

xupybd wrote: post #428
BrandoElFollito wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be a cultural thing, but inviting someone to go to church would be at least astonishing in France (and the rest of Europe). This is just not the place you go for a date. There could be some circumstances where this is possible ("hey, my church has its annual fiesta, plenty of people dressed up in a traditional way - you know, the famous one! Wanna come see that?", or a marriage/baptem/other family / friends…

Inviting someone on a date to church does seem odd. But what about the following: Co-worker "What did you get up to this weekend". Me "Just the usual. Lazy Saturday, church took up most of Sunday, what about you". Co-worker "Not much just watched a few movies. You go to church? Really?" Me "Haha yeah I do, you're welcome to check it out if your interested."

In some countries that still plays very badly and it could change your relationship forever.

In the USA, which is an extraordinarily religious country versus other Western countries, the response is likely to be more nuanced, but there are sill the many matters of which religion, sect and so on to consider. Going to a (particular type) of church risks being seen as a political statement as well. Best to avoid.

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