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Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

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Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#131

Those accusations can come from weird places. I was once accused of sexual harassment by a male coworker (I'm a straight male, and a father of two). When summoned by HR to face the victim it turned out that he felt that touching his screen (when explaining something) violated his personal space. Not that it is necessarily relevant to your case but if you feel innocent then you probably are - unless you're a psychopat…

While I can see being peeved about screen touching, the fact it was construed as sexual harassment is absurd.

Then again, perhaps displays have sexuality too.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#132

It's certainly a phenomenon that exists, we've all seen and heard of false accusations to damage people's reputation, business, and such. "Scandals" have been around since humans have, it's gossip, it's libel, it's whatever you call it. Question: did they provide you with any substantial evidence? Anyway, ultimately your case and many others is why the law is at it's very core based on an innocent until proven guilty…

No substatial evidence was provided. After being told that I made a woman feel uncomfortable, I immediately apologized for any harm I would have caused. I then asked if its possible to know what I said or did that caused this discomfort to insure I do not repeat an offending action. Management said they could not divulge this information for privacy reasons. So at this point, I feel there is really no evidence other…

Bring a slander case against them. Happens all the time.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#133
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but in practice would turn against him ... How? If he's leaving, exactly what they could do against him for you to say "it would turn against him"? Nothing, of course, that's the point of quitting, but I'm all eyes to your take on it.

Network of people you know and their willingness to work with you again are quite helpful in both getting new jobs and telling you how the workplace really looks like before you go to interview. Also, what is the point of leaving as parent suggested? It is that you get to look like a good guy in the end and she gets to feel bad/look bad in the eyes of the management. If he ends up looking like manipulative asshole, t…

> Network of people you know and their willingness to work with you again are quite helpful in both getting new jobs and telling you how the workplace really looks like before you go to interview.

Exactly how many of your jobs have helped you in any way in getting the next one? Hell, I have never even been asked references. Maybe we just work in entirely different industries and you're making too many assumptions.

> It is that you get to look like a good guy in the end and she gets to feel bad/look bad in the eyes of the management.

Perhaps and whoever accused him should feel bad, but won't, people who take advantage of the power that a false accusation gives tend to be sociopaths, they don't care about the person they're accusing nor about actual victims.

> If he ends up looking like manipulative asshole, then he won't get that.

He won't.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#135
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm suprized you don't know that. We are in europe. This concept is well known here and it is illegal. Moral harrassement is humiliating someone in front of collegues, requesting to complete unachivable tasks, continuously requesting things from someone without leaving him "time to breath" or complete the previous request. And then complaining that the previous task has not been completed, threatening to fire the per…

> I'm suprized you don't know that. They don't know because you're mistranslating from the French -- not all terms are subject to literal translation simply because they can be translated literally. The proper translation for "harcèlement moral" in US/UK English is "workplace bullying". No English-speaking country (with English as a native tongue) commonly uses the term "moral harassment".

Thanks. I didn't knew that. Sorry for the confusion.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#136

question was cleared up once they responded to me that they were going to see their boyfriend/girlfriend Situations where clarification requires those or similar statements share some context with those in which one person is clearly expressing a possible romantic interest in a person without a similar reciprocal interest. Multiple conversations within a relatively short time frame might reasonably be interpreted as…

Then there are the ones that perceive any contact from the opposite sex as being "hit on".

Person A: "Do you have the time?" Person B: "I have a boyfriend!!!"

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#137
post #136

question was cleared up once they responded to me that they were going to see their boyfriend/girlfriend Situations where clarification requires those or similar statements share some context with those in which one person is clearly expressing a possible romantic interest in a person without a similar reciprocal interest. Multiple conversations within a relatively short time frame might reasonably be interpreted as…

Then there are the ones that perceive any contact from the opposite sex as being "hit on". Person A: "Do you have the time?" Person B: "I have a boyfriend!!!"

Because:

1. The OP describes mention of a significant other as clarifying the situation;

2. The OP states that their actions could be interpreted as hitting on the other person;

that does not appear to be the type of situations described in the question.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#138
post #48

Accusing you without specific reason so you cannot defend yourself is a bad form harassing. Consider to step up and demand either specifics of the accusation so you can defend yourself, or all charges being dropped immediately in combination of an excuse from your employer. Check your local law if you could threaten to sue them for misconduct if they are not willing to cooperate. Consider not to comply with their dem…

Thanks for your input! I have toyed with the idea of meeting with management and making such demands, but between being nervous of getting fired sooner than my internship already ending, I am reluctant to do so. On the other hand, I feel this may be good practice on how to approach a similar situation should one arise, and when I am in a permanent position. The single co-worker I asked (and generally confide in) was…

I think you have mostly learned all that you can, and you are wasting your time at that company, particulay as an intern. Depending on what you have planned afterwords, I'd probably just leave for another opportunity ASAP. Somebody already questioned the idea of them giving you a good reference, I wouldn't count on it and wouldn't waste anymore time.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, I sometimes hear of people avoiding or leaving Linux because of him and more often than not it's somebody I'd never want involved in my project.

So you mean that what you want in your project is submissive people who tolerate abuse?

No, that is not what I mean.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And there's quite a wide range of alternatives in here, ranging from "not creepy at all" to "extrememly creepy". you have established a rapport where you talk about weekend activities, and she has mentioned half marathons to you in particular "Are you still running half marathons?" Not problematic at all; by standard social conventions you have implicit permission to ask about a topic that was previously deemed accep…

Yeah that all makes a lot of sense; the scenario was: more than acquaintances, worked together for over a year, she was QA on a project I was on, we talked everyday. She was very open about her life, and talked openly about the half marathons. Then I ran into her at a beer meetup with alumni from the same company, I hadn't talked to her in over a year. I was trying to make conversation, so I asked about the half mara…

You know, I'm not trying to make you feel bad here, but I wonder if that's the kind of question that needed some lead in? Usually when I meet a co-worker or acquaintance who I haven't spoken to in over a year (particularly if there is alcohol involved), I tend to be a little more conservative about how I bring up topics.

For example, in that situation, I might have said something like:

Hey, remember how you used to tell me all about your half marathon training? I just ran my first 5k...are you still training?

With those sentences you have:

1. Queued her memory. 2. Showed how that particular topic is relevant to you. 3. Asked your question.

That kind of approach also tends to be a more fertile conversation starter with people who I haven't spoken to in a long time.

Finally, this is harsh advice, but necessary to hear. One of the keys to people is understanding that some people are significantly more important to you than you are to them. You may use the phrase 'more than acquaintances' to describe your relationship to her. She may refer to you as 'some guy in IT'. Or, maybe she has never referred to you because you just aren't that important to her.

That isn't bad though, because it is just as inevitable that you are significantly more important to someone else than he/she is to you. Heck, 'that person who serves you coffee' may refer to you as 'le-mark le drool'. :)

Point being, our operating systems aren't all compatible.

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