Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#121

Post by tluyben2 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 11:34 PM UTC

everdayimhustln wrote: post #42

Never be around or communicate 1:1 with a woman you don't know alone. Always be with other people whom could be witnesses or with a clear paper-trail. Furthermore, keep "getting to know" questions to safe, nonintrusive topics for anyone new. Strangers are potential liabilities until proven otherwise.

Is that a US thing? I know this advice is given to teachers and such here, but colleagues? Quite a few of the people who worked at my company had relarions and/or married (with kids a lot of them) because of office flirtations; some love at first sight. I guess if it is a common thing then yours is good advice but I would not exactly like to work in such a paranoid environment, especially with people who should be my peers.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#122

Post by dang » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 11:36 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #9

Women are terrible, you should avoid any professional interactions with them. Unfortunately, this is the reality.

Ok, since you've ignored our many requests to stop posting uncivil and/or unsubstantive comments, we've banned you.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#123

Post by jnbiche » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 11:51 PM UTC

chmike wrote: post #115

watwut wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is moral harassment?

I'm suprized you don't know that. We are in europe. This concept is well known here and it is illegal. Moral harrassement is humiliating someone in front of collegues, requesting to complete unachivable tasks, continuously requesting things from someone without leaving him "time to breath" or complete the previous request. And then complaining that the previous task has not been completed, threatening to fire the per…

> I'm suprized you don't know that.

They don't know because you're mistranslating from the French -- not all terms are subject to literal translation simply because they can be translated literally.

The proper translation for "harcèlement moral" in US/UK English is "workplace bullying". No English-speaking country (with English as a native tongue) commonly uses the term "moral harassment".

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#124

Post by throwaway2564 » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 12:26 AM UTC

I've been in a somewhat similar situation. Here's some hard advice to consider.

Your manager and HR had a duty to stand up for you and did not. The fact that you've been moved to a far corner away from your team will not be lost on anyone. Your accuser is either a mischief-maker or has significant mental health issues, and there's a good chance she's spreading gossip.

It's pointless to try to fight this or even to try to learn more about the false accusation.

If at all possible, you should leave immediately. You can't use them as a reference, so probably two-week notice is needless. Your reason is "personal reasons".

If the internship has been sufficiently brief and not very publicly known, scrub it from LinkedIn/etc., and proceed as if it didn't happen. Otherwise, come up with a plausible and not particularly verifiable cover story.

If you can't leave right away, keep your head down. Name, rank, and serial number only.

The timing of this in your career is actually pretty lucky. No one really cares about internships unless your boss is a Nobel Prize winner or something. Once you get your next job, this will be ancient history, and just a sad lesson. In the future, of course, take steps to protect yourself from such allegations.

Don't let this get you down! It's not that important, and in less time than you think, you'll realize that it's really had no real effect on your life at all.

Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#125

Post by imaginenore » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 12:51 AM UTC

fjfkdjfjfjd wrote: post #52

Stenzel wrote: post #48

Accusing you without specific reason so you cannot defend yourself is a bad form harassing. Consider to step up and demand either specifics of the accusation so you can defend yourself, or all charges being dropped immediately in combination of an excuse from your employer. Check your local law if you could threaten to sue them for misconduct if they are not willing to cooperate. Consider not to comply with their dem…

Thanks for your input! I have toyed with the idea of meeting with management and making such demands, but between being nervous of getting fired sooner than my internship already ending, I am reluctant to do so. On the other hand, I feel this may be good practice on how to approach a similar situation should one arise, and when I am in a permanent position. The single co-worker I asked (and generally confide in) was…

Talk to a lawyer. I highly doubt your internship will end well there, the way things are going. Do you really expect them to give you a good reference?

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#126

Post by sheepmullet » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 1:15 AM UTC

matheist wrote: post #105

imron wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like why was asking a co-worker if she was still running half marathons a reason for her to respond "how do you know that? why do you care?" in an an accusatory manner Well, the devil is in the details. How do you know that she runs half marathons? Do you know it because 2 years ago she posted it to Facebook and you've gone through all her old Facebook posts and know that she once ran half-marathons? Creepy. Or, do…

And there's quite a wide range of alternatives in here, ranging from "not creepy at all" to "extrememly creepy". you have established a rapport where you talk about weekend activities, and she has mentioned half marathons to you in particular "Are you still running half marathons?" Not problematic at all; by standard social conventions you have implicit permission to ask about a topic that was previously deemed accep…

> Too forward — you probably don't have implicit permission to bring up personal subjects that she did not explicitly bring up to you first.

Maybe if you have low social status....

For normal people it is absolutely ok.

You aren't asking about her sex life.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#127

Post by SamReidHughes » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 1:24 AM UTC

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #97

everdayimhustln wrote: post #26

Linus Torvalds was targeted. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/11/06/linus_torvalds_targe... Also, the pervasive drive-by meddling of SJWs to brow-beat FOSS projects into accepting their Code of Conduct is further bullshit that is reinforced by well-meaning people that think it's a good thing to state the obvious, but then add a bunch of vague powers that can kick people out without due process.

Linus Torvalds is an arsehole who cannot behave as an adult and control his emotions. If he was my boss, I would sue my company for allowing abusive behavior happening in the work place. There's no excuse to do what he does, and it saddens me that a lot of good developers may choose not to work on Linux development just not to have to deal with him. But I guess that this is what he wants. He built his little "kingdom…

I don't know, I sometimes hear of people avoiding or leaving Linux because of him and more often than not it's somebody I'd never want involved in my project.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#128

Post by contingencies » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 1:32 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #119

contingencies wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh. You can take that stance. However, I don't think the OP is going to come across as manipulative if they have been wrongfully victimized by such a situation. My policy has always been and continues to be "open, honest, and to hell with the social implications." While it's not the snazziest social calibration one can aspire to, and it can burn bridges, long term it creates trust and more importantly removes the ne…

Practicaly, it does not matter whether he was wrongly victimised or not. It is irrelevant whether she wrongly accused him or whether he was collosally out of line. It matters whether he can talk about "formative stage of career" without sounding like a colossal weirdo. Most people can't. He was looking for advice how to make his situation better. This is not it. Also, there is big difference between saving mental res…

Your response is 90% opine.

By bringing it up he is giving the company a chance to be aware of its mistake. As long as he is respectful in how its done that's a very selfless thing.

FYI the open-and-to-hell-with-it strategy works well for me, I am very successful by most measures.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#129

Post by rdiddly » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 1:44 AM UTC

The accusation sounds frivolous, judging from your side of the story, which is all I have access to. Keep in mind though, that it's not always strictly about what's said. Like if your eyes keep unconsciously drifting to her tits the whole time you're talking, the conversation could be about feeding the hungry and singing in the church choir with your wife of 8 years and it'll still be pretty "uncomfortable" for her -- maybe doubly so!

Anyway I think I recommend the same thing your management does, except take it with you for your whole career: Keep the conversation to business-related things, and save the BS small-talk stuff for your social life outside work. Those are low-value conversations anyway... people's boring-ass weekends? Their stupid commutes? Who cares? I personally could not give a flying you-know-what about what any of my co-workers did this weekend or ever. Kill me with a thousand knives first!

That's just me. Still, you might not believe me when I say, it is truly a privilege to work in a professional, work-focused environment of basically disinterested strangers who happen to work together. It's truly something to behold. There is no drama whatsoever... nobody has time for it! Everybody is happy as a clam and almost as quiet. That's why I stick with my current job even though I'm kind of underpaid.

It's not done out of a sense of discipline. Well I mean it does take a little bit of discipline but it shouldn't take a lot. I'm there to work, I value the work, I enjoy the work. And I like getting it done, preferably as fast as possible and with concise work-related answers to my work-related questions, and a minimum of hearing about people's weekends. All those conversations do is slow down the work and interrupt the work. Sounds fanatical doesn't it. Again I would say it's a privilege to be in a situation where I can say all this honestly.

Re: Ask HN: Victim of an unfounded harrasement accusation. Your thoughts?

#130

Post by 6t6t6t6 » Sun, Jul 02, 2017, 2:09 AM UTC

SamReidHughes wrote: post #127

6t6t6t6 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linus Torvalds is an arsehole who cannot behave as an adult and control his emotions. If he was my boss, I would sue my company for allowing abusive behavior happening in the work place. There's no excuse to do what he does, and it saddens me that a lot of good developers may choose not to work on Linux development just not to have to deal with him. But I guess that this is what he wants. He built his little "kingdom…

I don't know, I sometimes hear of people avoiding or leaving Linux because of him and more often than not it's somebody I'd never want involved in my project.

So you mean that what you want in your project is submissive people who tolerate abuse?