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I'm a creep. I'm sorry

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Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#271

Post by aianus »

dbg31415 wrote: post #102
superplussed wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power inbalance man, that's the point.

There's always power imbalances though. Social, knowledge, financial... can you only hit on people whose looks are on par with your own, and who have the same amount of money you do, and same education, same experience, knowledge, social network... blah blah. Always going to be a power imbalance of some sort between people.

This.

If I'm a rich man and I ask a poor woman out, her answer actually might have a much bigger impact on her economic well-being than if I were an employer interviewing her for a job.

Does that make it wrong for rich men to ask poor women out?

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#272

Post by wyager »

coss wrote: post #259

Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.

All emotions must be eliminated from public interaction. All social processes must be bureaucratically authorized. Don't forget to take your Prozium and sign your consent forms.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#273

Post by dredmorbius »

theWatcher37 wrote: post #146
mabbo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's what's legally required, and there's what's morally required. Here's a guy who did some serious soul-searching and said "holy shit, maybe I'm wrong on a very bad way". It's about doing more than what he is bare minimum allowed to get away with. He's taking personal responsibility for his actions, openly and publicly. That takes a level of maturity and openness that I know is hard, and I fully respect. All tha…

But it won't be enough, it won't be seen as positive, and like half the comments in this thread show once you're outed as a PC heretic you're a non-entity. Read through the smarmy "he doesn't mean it" comments all over this thread to see what I mean. This culture is toxic in the tech community and needs to stop.

Not being enough doesn't make the public apology a wrong thing.

It is part of the solution.

It's also a very loud social signal.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#274

Post by pjzedalis »

macspoofing wrote: post #202
pjzedalis wrote: post #123

He completely misses the forests from the trees. Had the woman been hired she would have been denied by him the satisfaction of knowing she earned the position through her hard work, intelligence, and capabilities. He also does not seem to recognize why he is a creep. Ultimately we find people creepy when they portray themselves and their motives one way and yet secretly or covertly act another. I recommend therapy s…

>Had the woman been hired she would have been denied by him the satisfaction of knowing she earned the position through her hard work, intelligence, and capabilities. Meh. People get hired for bad, or unfair reasons all the time. Nobody cares about that. If that wasn't the case referrals and affirmative action wouldn't be allowed. The reality is that reasons for getting hired aren't as important as being competent in…

Sure nobody denies hiring happens for unfair reasons all the time. That does not mean its not an ideal to hope for. I would expect more from authoritative figures who have already found success in our industry and looking to assist the next generation.

Is it so much to ask that a venture capitalist who is looking for the best and brightest to propel our industry to hire you know... the best and brightest? She should not have to look herself in the mirror and ask "Did I get this because I am qualified, intelligent, and worked hard or because he wants to hit on me?"

Let me phrase it differently. If he had asked her "Would you accept an employment position with us because I find you very attractive?" Do you think she would accept?

Maybe she would but that is besides my point. A little empathy for how she feels demonstrates that she was applying for a job she felt qualified for intellectually and not physically.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#275

Post by noobermin »

atlih wrote: post #261
noobermin wrote: post #260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you're arrested, you have more power over the person who arrested you?

Not at all, until they express interest in you.

This is very down in the weeds, but let me provide an example.

>I'm going to place you under arrest, but if you give me your number, I might forget about it.

The power dynamic there favors the officer over you. If you don't yield to him/er, you could face prison. That demonstrates the issue with power dynamic leading to sexual harassment is that one with more power over the other coerces them into yielding sexual favors that they otherwise would not consent to.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#276

Post by rburhum »

Zarath wrote: post #211
rburhum wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sorry dude, but that is not an acceptable answer. We live in a society - with moral and legal structures of what is acceptable. During my the life of this startup and the previous one I have gotten f'ed over royally by a small amount of individuals where they infuriated me incredibly. "nature" would have made me punch them in the face - but that is incredibly unacceptable behavior in a society or work environment. Yo…

I think most normal/adult people don't want to live in a world where you can't ask out your coworker.

There are literally billions of people in the world. Being professional just means that you exclude coworkers and people you do business with from romantic relationships. Pick anyone else from the billions of people - just not the ones you do business with.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#277

Post by [deleted] »

agentdrtran wrote: post #268
coss wrote: post #259

Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.

What are you talking about? You can do all of those things, just don't hit on them!

[deleted]

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#278

Post by coss »

wyager wrote: post #272
coss wrote: post #259

Reading these comments makes me really depressed for the future of our society. Let me get this straight - 1. Don't go out with co-workers. 2. Don't make friends with co-workers. 3. Def. never drink with co-workers. Have we really become this sensitive? There's a voice in me that's screaming 'fuck off' to this kind of attitude. I can't quite articulate why it infuriates me so much.

All emotions must be eliminated from public interaction. All social processes must be bureaucratically authorized. Don't forget to take your Prozium and sign your consent forms.

:)

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#279

Post by woofyman »

alexandercrohde wrote: post #269
escapetech wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily about power imbalances - subordinates might express interest in a superior, or a colleague might interest in another colleague, and both situations can be just as problematic as a superior expressing interest in a subordinate. The problem is simply one person deciding to single out another person for any deviation of expected treatment especially when it has no relation to the social context or w…

I don't think dating coworkers is wrong. I think making somebody uncomfortable with clumsy/forceful/persistent advances can be bad though. But let's say you like somebody at work, so you talk to them, and you both enjoy the conversation. Then you eat lunch together at work a few times. Then you invite them to get drinks after work as a group. Then you continue to hang out when the rest of the group has gone home. The…

The problem with dating a coworker is that when they break up with you, you have to see them everyday.

Re: I'm a creep. I'm sorry

#280

Post by LightskinKanye »

arkades wrote: post #237
Xunxi wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, figuring out the ends sorts out the means. There have also been instances where the other party recoils and indicts the proposal. It is the reality of life even though some might disagree. Nonetheless, workplace relationship is emotionally dicey and avoiding it is a safer bet.

> Its only a problem if the other party is not into you, You're part of the problem.

If passing on my genes might mean I am a creep, I'll take the risk. The risk/reward ratio just really isn't in favor of being the nice guy.
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