McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation • Hacker News Board

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#171

Post by Alex3917 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:25 PM UTC

anindha wrote: post #108

mhluongo wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he come up with "paid, laid, or made"? I've heard it from sales people and thought it predated McClure. The kitten and "money shot" is absolutely unnecessary, but I get the coarse language for "paid, made, laid"- the idea is that compelling products and services target base desires.

I think the most compelling products deliver utility. Even if targeting base desires is your product design strategy doesn't mean it needs to be in a template for future founders to follow. Your argument is similar to the argument for having swimsuit models in tabloid newspapers. NYT is a better product.

> Even if targeting base desires is your product design strategy doesn't mean it needs to be in a template for future founders to follow.

Call me old school, but I still think that JWZ post "Groupware Bad" is one of the most important in the history of blogging.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#172

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:27 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #153

skj wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is still harassment with the genders reversed. What would make you think otherwise? But that's not actually the bar. It's important to recognize that men and women don't come in on equal footing for these interactions.

> Yes, it is still harassment with the genders reversed. What would make you think otherwise? The fact that I, as a man, would just take it as a compliment. Never bought that Demi Moore/Michael Dougles movie premise...

Interesting point. However, perhaps the reason why you would just take it as a compliment, is because as a man, you haven't been in the position of being taken advantage of, or desired for purely sexual purposes by women in positions of power. I am making huge assumptions and generalizations of course, but as I understand, it is much more common for older men with power to "take advantage of" more vulnerable women, so women are instinctively taught (or learn) to be wary and incredibly careful in these situations to not give the wrong "signals". Whereas men, generally having no experiences with this dynamic, are more carefree.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#173

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:35 PM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #125

ithinkinstereo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they met as two professionals in the context of an open job position. Inappropriate move #1 was contacting the job applicant over FB, #2 was making a comment about whether or not to "hire" or "hit on" her. The fact that he places the chances of hiring her in relation to "hitting" on her is wildly inappropriate. If he wanted a relationship, there are infinitely better and more appropriate ways to go about it, esp…

Someone else here mentioned that Bill Gates met Melinda (his wife) while she was working at Microsoft. Wouldn't this mean their relationship shouldn't have happened/is wrong?

Its not very hard to make your intentions clear outright. Like other siblings have pointed out, it was the way that he propositioned her that was creepy and unprofessional. He appears to be leveraging the financial power he has to get the lady to go out with him, whether he realized that or not. (Strictly personally, my opinion is that he was fully aware of what he did. He seems like a very smart and determined person and its hard to see him not realizing this).

A better way would have been to make it explicit. i.e. "Hey X, now that we are done with business, I was wondering if you would like to meet over coffee sometime later. This will certainly not affect our professional relationship either way, but I think you're an interesting person and would like to know you better."

Some relationships though are just really dicey, like the one above. Its like having a relationship with your direct manager, since the manager is evaluating you professionally, and that's why its generally considered a bad idea.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#174

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:36 PM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #154

chrischen wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else here mentioned that Bill Gates met Melinda (his wife) while she was working at Microsoft. Wouldn't this mean their relationship shouldn't have happened/is wrong?

As long as the women doesn't complain it's fine.

It is most certainly not fine.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#175

Post by moonman272 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:45 PM UTC

anindha wrote: post #90

rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I have seen questionable material come from him [1]: Examples: "Money Shot" with kitten spreadings its legs and "Great Products...Get you LAID". [1] https://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-a... edit: link directly to slides and deleted nested comment.

Starting at the beginning of that slide deck, it really seems to be mocking the culture

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#176

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:47 PM UTC

downandout wrote: post #39

rmason wrote: post #2

The one person that I would have never suspected is Dave McClure. Here's a guy who didn't fit the investment world and he was smart and hustled his way in. He started 500 startups with a female co-founder and said he chose her because she was smarter. He saw an opening for himself and talked about playing Moneyball for venture capital. He spoke often in interviews about chasing investments among founders who didn't f…

I'm not sure what McClure actually did, but in the current hypersensitive, politically correct environment, simply asking a woman out that you happen to meet while both of you are involved with a startup seems to be considered "harassment" worthy of destroying careers and businesses. Some of the stories that have surfaced recently clearly step over the line, but many others are vague and lack any clear intent on the…

> Intent matters. Men who use positions of power to intimidate women into doing things they don't want to do should absolutely be punished. Men who happen to be attracted to women that they work with/around who decide to politely ask them out shouldn't be.

I agree with your statement that intent matters. But also what matters is your sensibility in propositioning others for more personal purposes. Any person in a position of power has to realize this and learn how to communicate more clearly. So its both intent and appropriate action. Men/Women attracted to people they work with should realize that propositioning women at work is NOT the same as doing the same in a bar, and MUST tailor their approaches accordingly.

I think there was some research that said that 30% of people meet their spouses/ better half at the workplace. So lots of people do ask out coworkers, but most seem to know how to do it better.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#177

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:53 PM UTC

thinbeige wrote: post #149

Slightly OT: Everyone wants to become a CEO or VC. But the truth is you don't want to. You'll miss the times when you were a naive intern who could mess around with just everyone you met both on a private and professional level. Once you juggle millions it's over. The slightest advance is treated--with good reason--as sexual harassment.

That's only true strictly in the context of dating within the professional pool. I would argue that having more money and power is good in general, but NOT for dating subordinates and coworkers.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#178

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:57 PM UTC

baristaGeek wrote: post #61

How can a newly born organization build an organizational culture that avoids sexual misconduct as much as possible?

This is a good question, and perhaps the best thing to do is to have a clear policy in place on whats OK and whats not. Beyond that, of course its completely upto the person. You can never know how someone will behave in every circumstance, so you can only do so much.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#179

Post by pm90 » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC

plinkplonk wrote: post #105

something I've never understood. These guys (Kalanick, McClure) are multi millionaires, and could probably get any number of women to take interest in them on that basis alone. Why risk career suicide? Why would they need to hit on women at their workplaces ? Why isn't the normal dating game (where they have a massive edge via being loaded) sufficient? I don't get it (at all). What am I missing? These guys seem to be…

Its called abusing power. And a lot of people who find a lot of overnight success unfortunately don't realize the responsibilities that come with having more money and power.

Re: McClure steps back at 500Startups after internal sexual misconduct investigation

#180

Post by skywhopper » Sat, Jul 01, 2017, 3:59 PM UTC

westoncb wrote: post #119

anindha wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen questionable material come from him [1]: Examples: "Money Shot" with kitten spreadings its legs and "Great Products...Get you LAID". [1] https://www.slideshare.net/dmc500hats/how-to-pitch-a-vc-or-a... edit: link directly to slides and deleted nested comment.

I haven't looked into McClure's offenses beyond what the article talks about, but those slides seem totally innocent to me (it's a joke targeted at VCs more than anything else), which just makes him seem less guilty in this context ('cause why not just use real evidence then?). No comment on his actual guilt. This quote from the linked article (from Chris Sacca) seems apt: Over the last week, I have spoken with frien…

Obviously that slide deck was not the offense in question for Mr McClure. However, I'm surprised you think the slide deck is appropriate. Here's a good tip: sexual jokes and references are just not appropriate for a business context. And they become even more inappropriate the greater the gender imbalance is. When there's one or two women in a room of fifty men, and you give a presentation mentioning the supposed universal desire of getting laid, money shots, and showing a guy cuddling up with two adoring women, all of whom are partially undressed, that is creating an extraordinarily uncomfortable environment for those women. Combine that with near-constant "flirting" and come-ons those women experience from the men with more money and more power who surround them and can control their future in the industry and who often react very badly to any suggestion that they are being too aggressive or misinterpreting the women's behavior, and it feels like real menace, not harmless jokes.