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Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

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Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there's something to your comment, and I fully recognize I was in the wrong here, I would still have a really hard time believing in a constant murmur of bad behavior. Give credence enough to investigate and consider much more fully that I would have previously, absolutely, but I draw the line before "believe." Maybe that's just semantics.

Yep. What I'm saying we should learn from this, and Uber, and all the rest is that we should treat "a constant murmur" as much stronger evidence than we currently do. (Not necessarily a slam dunk - but, in Bayesian terms, it should shift your priors much more now than it would have before these stories came out.) Edit: Although really, what stronger evidence will you ever get? I suppose you could get a personal accou…

Agreed

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#62

Good that they came out, many admitted to it, and some are gone. That's the good news. Still, one was extra weird and messed up that I had to at least look at both of them in how they presented themselves: Marc Cantor vs Wendy Dent. It was one of few where little info and no picture was available for the woman. It already presented his background plus him admitting he sent sexual and weird messages to her in response…

Dude, what the fuck? Her having picture of herself showing cleavage is totally irrelevant. Dressing attractively does not make it ok to be harassed.

Secondly, saying "don't hit on women who come asking for funding or professional consolutation" in no way means "you can't date or hit on professional women".... you just can't do it TO THE WOMEN WHO ARE ASKING YOU FOR PROFESSIONAL HELP. You can flirt and do your thing if you meet a professional woman in a social situation, just not when you are interacting with them in a business context.

You can even date co-workers (I am married to a woman I met at work), but 1) you can't be in a position of power over them and 2) You have to be EXTREMELY careful in how you approach them. You do NOT start off with texts about sex or sexual things. You don't send anything sexual until you are way into your relationship. You would start with something like 'hey, would you like to grab a drink after work', and then if they say no, you stop IMMEDIATELY AND NEVER ASK AGAIN.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#63
post #23
post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

To me, this article explains it all. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/13/1-in-5-ceos-are-p... Many 'successful' people who make it to ceo are more likely to be a psychopath according to the article. And I would describe these actions of the men who are more likely to be psychopath, not normal.

As a culture we are obsessed with psychopaths, but in reality there is nothing out of the ordinary about people who enjoy sadistically wielding power over others. You find them in every schoolyard. The difference between a psychopath and a bully is that bullies act in a way that increases their power and standing, so they are affected by (and can be constrained by) social and cultural norms, especially among adults. Our obsession with psychopaths (and the power fantasy it reflects) reinforces bullies' intuition that people secretly admire and envy their bad behavior.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aside, and not meant at you specifically, but: Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _ believe it _. That constant murmur is the sound of a thousand stories like this that don't (yet) have the coordination to hit the pages of the NYT at the same time and become "credible". A month ago, there were dozens of female founders sitting on stories like this who were still afra…

> Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _believe it_. Um, no? There's a constant murmur of racism in SV companies. I haven't seen that at all. In fact, the opposite. Doesn't mean there's no racism, but I'd rather have actual examples before I buy into that line. There's a constant murmur of ageism in tech companies. I haven't seen that either. Plenty of people over 40,…

Because these stories are an object demonstration that this sort of thing can be happening in a blatant, undeniable way - seriously, read those texts - and the men around can never see it. So, "never seeing it" isn't really strong evidence that isn't happening.

(Compare catcalls. Female friends I trust tell me this happens to them all the time. Around me? ~Never. But that's cause it happens when I'm not there. Extrapolate.)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#66
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap? Or are you saying these will be seen as false accusations and thus it'll scare off VCs who aren't run by mysogynist pieces of sh-t? Because I'm not sure what the alternative is. If a VC is not in the habit of harassing women, they have nothing to fear. In fact, it'll give them an opportunity to court talented entrepr…

"If you're not doing doing anything wrong you have nothing to fear."

Ahh--if only this were ever true.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#67

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

It is a problem still: http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/01/gillian-anderson...

Wall Street is a different animal all together, and in a lot of ways worse. Having lived on both coasts and experienced both types of people (and still working with both types of people) I can tell you first hand that Wall Street is far worse. There is just more easy money to cover stuff up.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#68
"Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap?"

Because any of them that aren't used to avoiding all the risky behaviors, whether doing it intentionally (asking for dates) or unintentionally ("discriminatory language"), will now worry that they'll be hit with newspaper articles that can destroy their career. They'll be considered guilty until proven innocent by good chunk of America. Association with them will taint many other employers who won't hire them. A percentage of the claims will also be fake to try to boost some woman's time in the spotlight.

Interestingly, one woman here predicted image-conscious men would get a bit paranoid. I told her prediction was good since I've been hit with numerous false claims that were all disproven by witnesses by customers and coworkers alike. I'm blunt, never seeking popularity, and say controversial stuff (political moderate w/ flair for dark humor) that they felt would make me vulnerable with their great skill at manipulation, acting, gossip, and so on. Fortunately, each time I had at least one witness who was a white or black female (diverse team pays off) backing me up that I didn't say/do whatever they claimed with others (including semi-opponents) saying they agreed that basically I don't hurt workers or treat them unfairly.

Due to the risk, I naturally didn't try to get a date with anyone when I was in leadership positions... despite much, much temptation since they were impressive inside & out. Later, I doubled down on that when false claims came in by people wanting to replace me as lead, get discounted product from me to benefit them, get better service(s) than other customers at a loss, attempt lawsuits against the company hoping for settlements (they never tried haha), get me fired for alleged mistreatment of customers, and so on. This shit happened to me so much that, as the HN commenter predicted, I started avoiding women or anything like those making the false claims (occasionally men) as much as possible unless professionally expected to deal with them and always on camera. I'd treat them [visibly and audibly] exactly like everyone else. I even considered wearing a recorder on me all day at work in case they (again) tried to make something look bad on camera reporting different words than actually exchanged. My female boss was too smart for that, though, blocking that individual's actions.

So, this shit happens whenever the aggressive, scheming women (or men) see a way to get more for themselves at some seemingly-vulnerable man's (or woman's) expense. The possibility with its consequences should be considered. At least acknowledged if we're calling side-effects of reporting a necessary evil. It's happened to me personally numerous times since a PTSD-afflicted individual looks weak or nervous much of the time: a magnet for attackers. Oh well. What doesn't kill you makes you (stronger/stranger?). ;)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#69
post #48
post #7

This entire article is a smorgasbord of cringe: > During the recruiting process, Mr. McClure, a founder of 500 Startups and an investor, sent her a Facebook message that read in part, “I was getting confused figuring out whether to hire you or hit on you.” One would think having the phrases "hire you" and "hit on you" in the same sentence when communicating with someone undergoing recruitment at your company would be…

Heads are already rolling https://500.co/making-changes-at-500/ https://medium.com/@sacca/i-have-more-work-to-do-c775c5d56ca...

He turned off comments on his super creepy post.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#70

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

This is simply incorrect. These other industries are just as bad, and widely understood to be so. I don't think you actually need to look very hard to find evidence of this.

One thing that does define a difference between SV and at least Wall Street is that fast growth startups tend not to have put proper HR processes in place fast enough, which can create an environment in which harassment is easier.

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