Live data from Hacker News

Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

nytimes.com

31–40 of 882 posts

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#31

This is a watershed moment in the VC industry. The dam has finally burst, and we're now seeing the establishment of a new norm in which women who are being harassed go public rather than feeling compelled to hide it. Expect to see many men who were operating under the old norms getting ousted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

Because VCs are all populated by serial harassers who now realize they can't get away with this crap?

Or are you saying these will be seen as false accusations and thus it'll scare off VCs who aren't run by mysogynist pieces of sh-t?

Because I'm not sure what the alternative is. If a VC is not in the habit of harassing women, they have nothing to fear. In fact, it'll give them an opportunity to court talented entrepreneurs driven away from the immoral part of the VC spectrum.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

These men are not attractive enough to make this ok.

"It's okay if you're attractive enough" is wrong on multiple levels no matter how it's phrased.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#33

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

Hardest-charging--gotta-make-it-big--screw-the-rules guys are not heading to Wall Street or Hollywood, but to the Valley. That's where all the money and action is.

So this sorta doesn't surprise me.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#35

This is a watershed moment in the VC industry. The dam has finally burst, and we're now seeing the establishment of a new norm in which women who are being harassed go public rather than feeling compelled to hide it. Expect to see many men who were operating under the old norms getting ousted.

I expect less VCs to take meetings with women, sadly. Not because they are likely to be problems, quite the opposite I'd wager. That's going to be the rather depressing and sad reality of the shakeout of this.

this response would be as short lived as it is short sighted -- not taking into account that eventually.soon their bias would be measurable and again turn into ethical and PR nightmares for VC's that dont find a way to manage their male problem

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#37
Good that they came out, many admitted to it, and some are gone. That's the good news. Still, one was extra weird and messed up that I had to at least look at both of them in how they presented themselves: Marc Cantor vs Wendy Dent. It was one of few where little info and no picture was available for the woman. It already presented his background plus him admitting he sent sexual and weird messages to her in response to her alleged flirting with him and/or presenting herself with sex appeal. Common line of BS but sometimes true. Curious, esp of just what she looks like (I like faces on names), I looked her up:

http://www.wendydent.com/short-bio

http://www.wendydent.com/red-carpets?page=0%2C1

Wow. Got style of a fashion mag, big cleavage in another, then casual in another, and even dancing in front of fires in another. You could've told me the first set was a Hollywood screening or a fashion event with models pushing sexy outfits I'd believe either if it didn't say Hampton screening. That she might use sex appeal to her advantage is believable since many hard-working artists do. Just use every natural or acquired gift you have. She's also just interesting across the board from her bio to writing to photos. I'd consider asking her just because she seems a bit awesome and good looking. Uncommon combo at least in my circles.

That said, I'd probably not do it as a venture capitalist helping her get funding just because of the liability. I might end up in a news article or something. If I did it, there'd be a brick wall between the two with me testing her interest up front. She can tell me what she's comfortable with taking me up on personal/professional interests anywhere from zero (dont work with me) to both. Truth told, her short bio has so much good stuff I'd probably fund her (or help her) on a film-related startup just based on her experience and success in film. I'd do it whether she was interested in me or not.

Side discussion: There's also the side point that keeps coming to mind when I hear women complain that men they went to for money or professional advances showed interest in them. I'm always against anything extorting or harassment where women are clearly uninterested. That's obviously bad. Then, there seems to be an expectation that successful or professional men never show interest in any women who are skilled professionals or founders in favor of... lesser women in clubs, churches, or something? Telling me I must sacrifice all potential for a date or resulting relationship with such incredible women just because they're founders or something with nothing in return... while they can mostly do whatever they want... seems a bit arbitrary, unfair and lots of missed potential. One could argue financial benefits after acquisitions or IPO's from getting more women in but we men are already used to sacrificing time and money in some way for desirable women anyway. Startups come and go but (insert incredible founder) might only happen once.

Just kind of musing on a concern I've heard from a lot of people in and mostly outside that field just talking about rules where men can never hit on or anything close women who are professionals. Also, every one I've heard from reported witnessing a varying chunk of those women would hit on or flit with men they liked who were professionals doing their job. They said that was OK since they initiated. That seemed like a double standard. I always hate those. Good news is other chunk only flirt outside of work to uphold the principle of work & dating separate. Respectable where they ask for a sacrifice and make it themselves. Many men might still not agree to the arbitrary rule, though.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#38

How is it that the old money industries of Wall Street and Hollywood, no vanguards of gender egalitarianism themselves, seem to have less flagrant sexual harassment issues? Do they keep them under wraps or are they just more mature by now?

The tech industry, for all it's faults and transgressions, is still a relatively progressive industry (emphasis on RELATIVE). "Old money industries" have been getting away with this type of behavior for decades, if not centuries. Women in those jobs probably see no point in reporting it or coming forward. Why would they? It's not going to make headlines that the secretary at Goldman Sachs gets propositioned for sex by top executives. She's just going to lose her job, in all likelihood.

So I would argue, it isn't that those industries have less flagrant sexual harassment. It's that you just don't hear about it. It doesn't make headlines.

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#39

I had always heard the constant murmur of sexual harassment happening in the Valley, but I was never sure if there was any merit to it. I anecdotally had never seen anything that would even come close to a situation like those described, so I kind of brushed it off. But then articles like these come out. Wow. These are some of the kingpins of Silicon Valley shown sexually harassing with hard, factual evidence. I had…

Aside, and not meant at you specifically, but: Next time you hear "a constant murmur" of harassment, racism, or other bad behaviour, _believe it_.

That constant murmur is the sound of a thousand stories like this that don't (yet) have the coordination to hit the pages of the NYT at the same time and become "credible". A month ago, there were dozens of female founders sitting on stories like this who were still afraid to go public. And they were afraid because good, decent people like you, who "had never seen anything like it" would "dismiss it out of hand" if they told.

(Obligatory disclaimers: You don't need to believe every story 100% unconditionally, but "a constant murmur" = "multiple corroborating sources" and should not be ignored. Also, I want to praise rather than criticise the parent comment, because acknowledging why we were ignoring these stories is a vital first step to not ignoring the next one we hear.)

Re: Silicon Valley Women, in Cultural Shift, Frankly Describe Sexual Harassment

#40

Has anyone seen a policy on how to handle sexual harassment allegations in the work place? If it comes down to 'he says she says' do you fire someone even though you don't have evidence? Similarly, if you don't fire someone and new allegations come up later then it makes the employer look like they are an enabler.

> If it comes down to 'he says she says' do you fire someone even though you don't have evidence? If an employee of yours said they were raped by another employee, would you make them go to the hospital and get a rape kit before believing what they said? If an employee of yours said they got mugged and lost their laptop, would you demand security camera footage before replacing it? You should default to trusting your…

If you don't do any validation, this will be noticed and you will encourage false reports as a means of settling unrelated personal scores.

That management reserves the right to dismiss for any reason doesn't mean that dismissing based on bare unconfirmed complaints is reasonable, either morally or from a business perspective.

Post reply on HN