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Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

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Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#291

Post by gnaritas »

HalteMich wrote: post #234
gnaritas wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "left" is not a single person with a single position, by treating it as such, you're sealing yourself into a personal delusion about others that might make you feel good, but simply isn't accurate. And using derogatory terms like "welfare society" merely shows your own political bias. You know why the "left" confuses you, it's because you don't actually bother to try and understand them; you're happy simply mis-c…

The "right" has simply given up. Look at how the media portrays anyone with "traditional values". Turn on any HBO show to get a glimpse of the condescension (True Detective??). Attempts to shut down Chick-fil-A in various states. Courts that overturn propositions despite widespread support amongst voters even in the most liberal of states. Violent attacks at universities against non-liberal academics and speakers. I'…

Interesting how you're misstating the rights attempts to oppress other people as "traditional values" or the courts protecting minorities as overturning the will of the people; it's easy to dress up bad behavior from the right in vague accusations against the left to deflect from the problem that is actually the right just being awful.

> Attempts to shut down Chick-fil-A in various states.

That's what happens when come out publicly as a pro-oppression organization, you're going to get blow-back from those trying to escape said oppression; this is hardly surprising or unwarranted. There's no reason a restaurant needed to take an anti-gay stance, crying about those actions having consequences is just silly.

> There have never been any olive branches extended by the left.

That's simply so untrue one can't even take it seriously. Obama continually attempted to work with the right so much so that one of the biggest critiques from his own party was stop trying to cooperate with them when they're doing nothing but obstructing anyway. He even passed a Republican health care law in a failed attempt to get bipartisan support on the issue.

> And even when the republicans own congress they somehow have to cede control to the democrat (see Obama years for reference).

They did no such thing, they obstructed for 6 years straight, they didn't cede anything. They filibustered so much they quite literally broke the government and started a new era of "no cooperation at all" that we're going to be paying for for the rest of our lives.

You're right, the "right" has given up; they've given up any connection to reality and an awareness of their own behavior and how awful it is. Oppression doesn't simply become acceptable because you label it "traditional values".

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#292

Post by Indolat »

zeusdx wrote: post #226
Indolat wrote: post #99

Unfortunately, the immigration policies of most countries in the world are one huge stupid joke. Why so much obsession about the country where people were born into? It wasn't their choice at all. It just doesn't matter. The only questions you should be asking are "are they decent people? Are they willing to integrate? Will they contribute to our economy? Will they make us problems?" And none of these questions you c…

UK has Tier 1 - Entrepreneur Visa where you can remain and run a company for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for extension for another 5 years or apply for settlement. You are judged based on your talent and not on where you were born.

"Tier 1 (General) visa 1. Overview

You can no longer apply for or extend Tier 1 (General) visas."

As far as I remember, this type of visa is abolished many years ago.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#293

Post by Indolat »

omginternets wrote: post #268
Indolat wrote: post #99

Unfortunately, the immigration policies of most countries in the world are one huge stupid joke. Why so much obsession about the country where people were born into? It wasn't their choice at all. It just doesn't matter. The only questions you should be asking are "are they decent people? Are they willing to integrate? Will they contribute to our economy? Will they make us problems?" And none of these questions you c…

>Why so much obsession about the country where people were born into? It wasn't their choice at all. It just doesn't matter. Because nationality does matter. The oft-repeated meme that we're all the same doesn't hold to even superficial scrutiny. Nationality is not arbitrary in the sense that it's a crystallization of centuries of cultural values. People's place of birth predicts their attitudes about a vast number o…

> The oft-repeated meme that we're all the same doesn't hold to even superficial scrutiny.

Yeah. Ask some KKK members what do they think about minority rights.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#294

Post by Indolat »

nandemo wrote: post #252
Indolat wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their point system is set really very, very high and costs much more money than most people can ever save (try saving 5-10 thousands when your monthly salary is some 200 US$ and you have to live off it). I'm pretty sure that some 95% of Australians would never pass it if they were born in a different country. (Long live the privilege of birth!)

The high bar is there to ensure the system satisfies the "will they contribute to our economy" criterion. Sure, that results in immigrants being more qualified and having more earning potential than the average native citizen. Nothing wrong with that. On the contrary, it means each immigrant will in average increase the country's GDP/capita. It also means the working class will be less likely to oppose immigration. W…

Not a middle-income location and not from middle-class. I still managed to leave it, but you have no single idea how much effort and pain it cost me.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#295

Post by Retric »

tallanvor wrote: post #249
CountSessine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fair enough. But only 11%? Retric's numbers suggest only 11% of education funding is for teacher salaries. Does that not sound as crazy and outrageous to you as it does to me? Especially when the system seems to be so ... dysfunctional. I don't know a single teacher who hasn't had to personally shell out money for school supplies for their students because their school ran out of paper or something else essential…

Is there some waste in school systems? Sure. But probably not as much as you think. The cost of buildings, the maintenance, insurance, water, electricity all add up very quickly. Associated staff costs aren't cheap either - many schools have a nurse on staff to deal with injuries and illness, for example. Counselors/psychologists help troubled students. Learning specialists help deal with certain problems - as an exa…

Refactoring the same comment:

Cops and school nurses may come out of the 'school' budget line item but they are very much health care and policing spending. If another country has that same nurse, but takes it out of their public healthcare budget then their 'education' spending numbers will be significantly lower without lowering their total government spending.

Similarly if free universal healthcare is part of the national budget then the reported costs for every worker in the school system will be several hundred a month lower. Even though government spending is similar.

Not sure if anyone does this. But, another example is school buses could just as easily come out of the public transit expenses as the school budget. The distinction is rather arbitrary as you are moving people even if you are taking them to school.

PS: Net result we might be spending more or less money because your comparing relatively arbitrary budget numbers across different systems. Much like the US taking the prison budget to cover for the lack of a well functioning healthcare system for the mentally ill.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#296

Post by lovehashbrowns »

rayiner wrote: post #274
lovehashbrowns wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not to be more like China. I like the concept of being a more idealized 1950's-style superpower. Far less sexism and racism, while leading the world in science, technology, and culture. The most practical way of achieving that is by taking the best people from other countries and bringing them here into the U.S. I think it's possible to be a superpower and maintain America's identity while also having…

> That's how I view(ed) the country heading during the 2008-2016 years. Maybe I'm naive but I was seeing a lot of social issues change for the better. That wasn't my impression at all. During that time, I lived and worked in Baltimore and Philly. The inner city poverty there was as bad as ever--indeed worse because those cities, like many parts of the country, are getting left behind in the "new economy." In my view,…

Things were always far from being good in general, especially when it comes to culture as you mentioned. I just thought maybe there was an upwards trend, you know? Like maybe things now aren't great, but 10, 20, 30 years from now, who knows how much improvement we'll get! The past year has definitely been a shock, at least for me. And like I mentioned in my other comment, maybe I was naive, or just way out of touch with reality.

I think the best example was with gay marriage. I definitely saw how much opposition there was to that, but seeing a lot of the country get dragged into progress made me feel more hopeful. That's the feeling I had in general, about everything. "Here's where we have progress to make; we'll definitely drag along a good portion of the country into it, but we'll get there eventually." Now it seems like the trend is in the opposite direction, or that it'll take way longer than I thought to see any kind of real improvement. Even with the infrastructure you mentioned, it seems like there's a big push to keep things exactly as they are now.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#297

Post by giobox »

johncolanduoni wrote: post #50
paulsutter wrote: post #38

Vancouver, anyone? I live in Seattle and I'm about ready to drive two hours north for my next startup. To hire the Russian programmers I'm already working with, or the folks on Kaggle I'd love to hire. The US has a completely broken scheme for visas.

Last time I checked, Canada is still much stricter when it comes to work visas than the US, though I suppose much less of their capacity is getting eaten up by Infosys-like operations.

I've recently started investigating the options for moving from the US to Canada as a current H1B holder, and what you are claiming couldn't be further from my experience at all.

The Canadian visa system for skilled workers is so much simpler than the USA I almost couldn't believe it. No quotas, entirely points based, your score is easy to calculate and the minimum number of points needed published at regular intervals, much more personal control and far fewer vexing employer sponsorship issues as is so frequently the case with US green cards. It's almost meritocratic...

The French requirement for permanent residency visas generally only applies in certain provinces as well, especially the eastern ones like Quebec. Not speaking French isn't an issue for visas to work in most major cities in Canada, including Vancouver, assuming you speak English, aren't ancient (age is a factor in scoring), have a reasonable degree and a small amount of savings.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#298

Post by davidw »

convolvatron wrote: post #163
davidw wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No reason you can't both invest in kids, and welcome people.

you can, and you should. but it seems like the us has it made right now, a substantial amount of talent from overseas and abysmal investment in the native populace. if you want to keep underinvesting in education, and keep a strong presence in new technologies/science/commerce...why would you turn off the magic spigot? even if you started trying to right the ship of education, there's no way you could compensate for…

> abysmal investment in the native populace.

Yes, that's absolutely true. I'm not much of an expert in that policy area, although it does seem the Bureau of Indian Affairs isn't working out well in some ways.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#299

Post by KGIII »

rtpg wrote: post #259
KGIII wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rhetoric doesn't do much good. I appreciate the reply but you may just have well said, "Magic!" ;-) To be clear, I'm not sure my question even really has an answer. I understand the need to attract top talent. If we don't, they are just going to go to work somewhere else. At the same time, do we really want to replace local talent with not as talented, but less expensive, people? There are some big implications there…

>do we really want to replace local talent with not as talented, but less expensive, people? This is a false dichotomy. These people could be just as skilled, if not more. So then your only argument is localism. Also, if we _let immigrants compete in the labor market properly_ by not handcuffing people like H-1Bs to their company.... they won't be cheaper. They could just get poached by another company or take a job…

If they were just as skilled, they'd not be being trained by the people they are replacing.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#300

Post by rayiner »

lovehashbrowns wrote: post #296
rayiner wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That's how I view(ed) the country heading during the 2008-2016 years. Maybe I'm naive but I was seeing a lot of social issues change for the better. That wasn't my impression at all. During that time, I lived and worked in Baltimore and Philly. The inner city poverty there was as bad as ever--indeed worse because those cities, like many parts of the country, are getting left behind in the "new economy." In my view,…

Things were always far from being good in general, especially when it comes to culture as you mentioned. I just thought maybe there was an upwards trend, you know? Like maybe things now aren't great, but 10, 20, 30 years from now, who knows how much improvement we'll get! The past year has definitely been a shock, at least for me. And like I mentioned in my other comment, maybe I was naive, or just way out of touch w…

The (delay in) legalization of gay marriage is actually an example of the decline of our institutions, not a reason to be hopeful. When the Supreme Court struck down bans on interracial marriage in 1967, more than 80% of the country opposed the practice. It would be 30 more years before a majority of the public would approve. With gay marriage, the Court cowardly waited until more than half of Americans already wanted it legalized. There are very few instances in which the Supreme Court has a mandate to override the popular will. Enforcing the letter of the Equal Protection Clause is one of those. The fact that the Court waited until it was politically acceptable to do so is an indicator of infirmity in the institution.
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