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Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

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Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#271

Post by Nullabillity »

tallanvor wrote: post #249
CountSessine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fair enough. But only 11%? Retric's numbers suggest only 11% of education funding is for teacher salaries. Does that not sound as crazy and outrageous to you as it does to me? Especially when the system seems to be so ... dysfunctional. I don't know a single teacher who hasn't had to personally shell out money for school supplies for their students because their school ran out of paper or something else essential…

Is there some waste in school systems? Sure. But probably not as much as you think. The cost of buildings, the maintenance, insurance, water, electricity all add up very quickly. Associated staff costs aren't cheap either - many schools have a nurse on staff to deal with injuries and illness, for example. Counselors/psychologists help troubled students. Learning specialists help deal with certain problems - as an exa…

> Buses aren't cheap either, and in rural areas, you might need several smaller buses to get everyone to school in a reasonable amount of time.

So... have them take the regular buses? Seems incredibly wasteful to try to fill one bus with school children when those areas are (or should be!) covered by the regular bus routes.

> Schools in more urban areas often have security guards, and most schools have put more money into physical security as well with the perceived rise in school shootings (not trying to start a debate as to whether or not this is happening).

WTF?

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#272

Post by muninn_ »

marcell wrote: post #218
muninn_ wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. So are you in favor of unrestricted immigration? 2. Yes but that doesn't answer any questions.

1. Within reason, yea pretty much. If we had sane government, I'd be in favor of, say, 10x increases on all types of immigration over the next 10 years. This means hi tech workers, low tech workers, families of current immigrants, amnesty for illegal immigrants, everything. The economy will adapt, and we'll find a way to make use for them. 2. Hopefully (1) does

Ah. Well i fundamentally disagree with you as we would have a refugeee and immigration crises that would be near apocalyptic. We would not have 10x immigration. We would have hundreds of millions of people pouring in to the United States as they flee Africa, Latin America, and Asia. Property value would instantly rise to a degreee such that only the ultra-mega rich could afford even a dump, and those of us who are already property owners would likely form a new caste where only those of us who have already purchased property could afford to live in a city.

Our food production, public health services, infrastructure, and environment would be completely overwhelmed and the government would be helpless to stop it.

"Within reason" is unreasonable to me. You're just saying "increase immigration it'll be good". What if it isn't? Your argument largely centers around more immigrants == better economy, but that's assuming we actually will have jobs for them, and that they don't get stuck in cultural ghettos and then turn to crime or radicalization. A society that is not culturally homogenous is not a very strong one.

Instead of taking in all these people, we should make where they live not a miserable place to live. I enjoy the population density we have in the United States. I have 0 interest in accelerating our population levels.

Or maybe I should. Since I own property I'll just get rich off of it. Hmmm.

There is nothing wrong with immigration or immigrants per se, but we really need to be careful with the rhetoric and think through our immigration policy and how it affects us at home, and how it affects those around the world.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#273

Post by Delmania »

tallanvor wrote: post #249
CountSessine wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, fair enough. But only 11%? Retric's numbers suggest only 11% of education funding is for teacher salaries. Does that not sound as crazy and outrageous to you as it does to me? Especially when the system seems to be so ... dysfunctional. I don't know a single teacher who hasn't had to personally shell out money for school supplies for their students because their school ran out of paper or something else essential…

Is there some waste in school systems? Sure. But probably not as much as you think. The cost of buildings, the maintenance, insurance, water, electricity all add up very quickly. Associated staff costs aren't cheap either - many schools have a nurse on staff to deal with injuries and illness, for example. Counselors/psychologists help troubled students. Learning specialists help deal with certain problems - as an exa…

> Is there some waste in school systems? Sure. But probably not as much as you think.

This honestly applies to many areas of government, not just education. However, for right wing propaganda, it serves as a convenient boogy man to ram through tax cuts for the wealthy.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#274

Post by rayiner »

lovehashbrowns wrote: post #198
rayiner wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm looking around the world, is China what I want the US to be more like? It seems like the happiest countries are much smaller places like Sweden and Denmark.

It's definitely not to be more like China. I like the concept of being a more idealized 1950's-style superpower. Far less sexism and racism, while leading the world in science, technology, and culture. The most practical way of achieving that is by taking the best people from other countries and bringing them here into the U.S. I think it's possible to be a superpower and maintain America's identity while also having…

> That's how I view(ed) the country heading during the 2008-2016 years. Maybe I'm naive but I was seeing a lot of social issues change for the better.

That wasn't my impression at all. During that time, I lived and worked in Baltimore and Philly. The inner city poverty there was as bad as ever--indeed worse because those cities, like many parts of the country, are getting left behind in the "new economy." In my view, America has a culture problem, not a talent or technology problem. We're people who dish out life sentences for a string of non-capital crimes; in Germany (much less Sweden) the maximum for murder is 15 years. Our state and local mismanagement is more reminiscent of a third world country than a western democracy. Our local governments are insolvent, we're incapable of building infrastructure despite throwing tons of money at it. I just returned from visiting Tokyo. The trains there are so smooth and reliable that they were a revelation to me coming from D.C. Not only do we not have anything like that, I can't even picture how our incompetent governmental units would build something like that.

I'm sure I'm viewing things with rose colored glasses. Germany and Japan are significantly poorer countries than the US, after all. But they manage to get really basic aspects of their society right in a way the US seems culturally incapable of doing.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#275

Post by lg »

Nullabillity wrote: post #271
tallanvor wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some waste in school systems? Sure. But probably not as much as you think. The cost of buildings, the maintenance, insurance, water, electricity all add up very quickly. Associated staff costs aren't cheap either - many schools have a nurse on staff to deal with injuries and illness, for example. Counselors/psychologists help troubled students. Learning specialists help deal with certain problems - as an exa…

> Buses aren't cheap either, and in rural areas, you might need several smaller buses to get everyone to school in a reasonable amount of time. So... have them take the regular buses? Seems incredibly wasteful to try to fill one bus with school children when those areas are (or should be!) covered by the regular bus routes. > Schools in more urban areas often have security guards, and most schools have put more money…

"regular buses" don't exist here outside of large cities.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#276

Post by kharms »

ThomPete wrote: post #123
pavlov wrote: post #102

I asked this very question on HN in November 2016: will the "startup visa" survive? Commenters thought that Trump wouldn't interfere with it: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12931943 This is a solid reminder that the Trump administration is showing itself to be mostly concerned with undoing anything that Obama did, rather than working for anyone's benefit. You can't apply logic to predict the actions of these pe…

Increasing salaries needed for H1B was long overdue, obama should have fixed that as one of the first things. Trump, like him or not is taking a hard look at many of these visas. Scrapping the founders visa is not a bad idea there are plenty of other opportuninties to get into the US.

What a nonsequitor. First, the presence or absence of other immigration paths doesn't speak to the cost or benefit of the startup visa.

Second, there wouldn't be so many H1B applicants if there were other ways into the US.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#277

Post by rayiner »

pcwalton wrote: post #197
rayiner wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm looking around the world, is China what I want the US to be more like? It seems like the happiest countries are much smaller places like Sweden and Denmark.

Both of which are members of the EU and have no plans to pull a Brexit anytime soon (indeed, populism in Europe sputtered quickly and now seems to be on the wane). As examples of the benefits of protectionism/isolationism, Sweden and Denmark are muddled.

Populism in Europe is just getting started. The far right party in the Netherlands gained 8 seats in parliament (to 20) while the leading party lost 7 seats (to 33). It's already had the effect of pushing the mainstream parties to the right even in the face of recent election losses. Both Denmark and Sweden have enacted immigration restrictions in the last year. Perhaps the biggest change is that any chance of a Turkey joining the EU is dead. That seemed like a real possibility 5-8 years ago.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#278

Post by delinka »

marcell wrote: post #15

From the article: "To qualify for the rule, entrepreneurs would have to meet high standards. A foreigner must demonstrate that he or she will contribute to economic growth or job creation and show that a reputable investor has put at least $250,000 into the company. Under this rule, they can stay in the U.S. for 30 months, with the possibility of a 30-month extension. They cannot apply for a green card during this pe…

> Why would investors risk $250k if the founder may be deported in 30 months?

Presumably, the investor has invested in a corporate entity organized in the United States and that the money has been used to pay employees such that there's some kind of structure that continues to exist in the U.S. with or without the founder. If you're the investor, and you're just writing a check to a guy who flew in with a startup visa and nothing else, then I, a U.S. Citizen, have quite a few startup ideas I'd like to discuss with you.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#279

Post by kefka »

KGIII wrote: post #212
kamaal wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You just described capitalism as it exists today. Even if you did away with immigration, your problem has barely seen any solution at all. If your fear is being replaced by someone who is ready to work for less. There are enough kids who will do anything for a job, including taking a good pay cut. To replace you. The real issue you must be worried about being relevant to the work you are doing. Being productive, reso…

Oh, no. I am quite happily retired. However, I would suggest that we have a moral obligation to avoid sinking as low as we possibly can. Yes, if people are hungry, they will work for pennies on the dollar. Ethically, I would suggest we avoid desperate people en masse, for a whole mess of reasons. Hell, I can make a financial argument that suggests we not do that. You get better work from content people who have the m…

For me, I've always liked highlighting the problem at hand. It can be multi-faceted with different actors wanting mutually exclusive things - where the resolution is violence.

But in talking of these, I see it more akin to the way Open Source software is up front and public about it - with the idea that enough eyeballs, these problems can be worked with. Being able to even frame the question, with politically charged areas like this, is a step in the right direction.

And no single person is expected to figure it out. But a thousand of us could.

Re: Trump administration has plan to scrap ‘startup visa’ rule

#280

Post by kefka »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #141
kefka wrote: post #57

Then lets be blatant and straightforward then. "If you're rich and willing to spend, we want you. If you're average or poor, fuck you."

Yes we want capital and brains to flow in but your comment isn't fair. The US has a history of settling refugees here. We also have a purposefully porous southern border and have normalized illegal immigrants.

> The US has a history of settling refugees here.

Oh please. You don't know your history then.

We also refused Irish during the Potato Famine. This time it was because they weren't "healthy" - aka, no damn Mics.

After a campaign of anti-Irish sentiment, the Italians came here. We have a racial slur for them - fops. They were turned out en masse.

We denied the Jews coming here in '36. Didn't like Jewish - they kill and eat children! (Yes, this is in the US National Holocaust Museum as example of propaganda.)

We denied the Jews again in '46, AFTER knowing the atrocities they suffered in Europe. You know, those damned Jews.

In the 50's, we laid heavily into the Slavic and Baltic countries... Those damned Commies. Oh you were leaving because of humanitarian crisis? LIAR.

That's just a few examples. This whole Muslim ban has been done before with nations, politics, and religion (Irish, Communist/Socialist, Jewish respectively). Most populist "leaders" will garner support by singling one group out and attacking. Just like Hitler did, and following in the footsteps, Trump.

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