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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#261

Post by watter »

ska wrote: post #241
potatolicious wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general, for the same job." I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for work - this multiple sounds entirely plausible, in fact it sounds like a conservative estimate. In major tech hubs the multiple is closer to 3-4x. > "Much more realistic is a 30% bump" This is not at all realistic - I know many Canadians working in the US as developers…

Being HN, you have to be careful of selection bias. I'm sure many of us know someone who left a 150k/yr job in Vancouver, say, for 400k in the valley. Or may be that someone. But to suggest this is th norm for software jobs across both countries? The stats just don't support it. 3-4x is crazy. You make it sound like the US is crawling with tech jobs paying > 500k for mid-career jobs. It just not so.

You don't hear about senior-level jobs for $80,000 in major US markets though. In Canada they are quite common (and realistically only worth about 60,000 USD). I work remotely and I've been priced out of my own country. I occasionally take a Canadian gig and it is always about 50 percent of what I would make in USD and the client complains on and on about the cost (if they only knew).

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#262

Post by watter »

raverbashing wrote: post #259
shados wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? Toronto housing isn't cheap by Canadian standards, and salaries, while higher as far as I know, are not super high either. Montreal is ridiculous since it is essentially NYC's favorite "nearshoring" . It's also big for game dev, which pays like crap even by Montreal standards. Is it better in Edmonton? No idea. But with Vancouver/Montreal/Toronto out of the picture, that leaves precious few options.

Montreal rents are not too expensive, no. There are other issues though

If you can learn a programming language you can learn to say bonjour and order a meal in French. I know, I have done this.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#263

Post by wayn3 »

watter wrote: post #262
raverbashing wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal rents are not too expensive, no. There are other issues though

If you can learn a programming language you can learn to say bonjour and order a meal in French. I know, I have done this.

doesnt mean that you want to.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#264

Post by AzzieElbab »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #164
didibus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it so much if Canada had comparable salaries. I'd move back for sure, at least if it came 10% within Seattle and SV. But, I'm not sure it's possible for companies to do so. I mean, first of all, in the US, outside of a few cities like NY, SV, Seattle, Bellevue, you start to see lower pay which gets closer to Canadian pay. Appart from that, Canada just doesn't have the same market. That's the biggest differen…

> In a way, Canada pays decently. You'll be very comfortable as an engineer in Canada, even with a large family. But compared to certain US cities, it's abysmal. Hmmm depends on where you live. In some places a large family would be quite unaffordable. The average cost of a detached house in February in Metro Vancouver was $1.76 million. Vancouver has become so unaffordable that even those with great (for Canada) six…

Toronto is the same. In fact, worse because you need two cars per family

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#265

Post by AzzieElbab »

Tiktaalik wrote: post #164
didibus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it so much if Canada had comparable salaries. I'd move back for sure, at least if it came 10% within Seattle and SV. But, I'm not sure it's possible for companies to do so. I mean, first of all, in the US, outside of a few cities like NY, SV, Seattle, Bellevue, you start to see lower pay which gets closer to Canadian pay. Appart from that, Canada just doesn't have the same market. That's the biggest differen…

> In a way, Canada pays decently. You'll be very comfortable as an engineer in Canada, even with a large family. But compared to certain US cities, it's abysmal. Hmmm depends on where you live. In some places a large family would be quite unaffordable. The average cost of a detached house in February in Metro Vancouver was $1.76 million. Vancouver has become so unaffordable that even those with great (for Canada) six…

Toronto is the same. In fact, worse because you need two cars per family

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#266

Post by otoburb »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #264
Tiktaalik wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a way, Canada pays decently. You'll be very comfortable as an engineer in Canada, even with a large family. But compared to certain US cities, it's abysmal. Hmmm depends on where you live. In some places a large family would be quite unaffordable. The average cost of a detached house in February in Metro Vancouver was $1.76 million. Vancouver has become so unaffordable that even those with great (for Canada) six…

Toronto is the same. In fact, worse because you need two cars per family

From the transportation perspective, Toronto is probably marginally better than Vancouver for families.

You're more likely to require two cars in Vancouver than in Toronto as the combination of the Greater Toronto Area public transportation options cover a wider area than Vancouver's.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#267

Post by raverbashing »

watter wrote: post #262
raverbashing wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal rents are not too expensive, no. There are other issues though

If you can learn a programming language you can learn to say bonjour and order a meal in French. I know, I have done this.

Correct, and that's not an issue (for me)

But the rigorous winters are one, also see my other comment in this thread

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#268

Post by AzzieElbab »

sqeaky wrote: post #118
linkregister wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this holds water since Amazon engineers in Vancouver, five hours north of Seattle, experience a 30% pay differential from their U.S. counterparts. The simple fact is that quality Canadian engineers will accept jobs for lower pay. I expect that over time, the software engineering market will demand higher pay. I hope OP does start that company in Waterloo to kickstart the whole process.

Doesn't Amazon try to screw everyone pretty much the time? Don't they just do whatever they can get away with? I think pay statistics from multiple companies would be mcuh stronger for your argument..

True as it may be, Amazon is top payer in Vancouver

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#269

Post by Bakary »

linkregister wrote: post #95
ryandrake wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Having "too many developers" in a community doesn't mean a glut of developers fighting for scraps, it means Silicon Valley. I think we might be talking about two different Silicon Valleys. The one here in the real world has a glut of developers fighting for scraps. Companies that have the luxury of being extremely picky and only hiring the best. Lots of interviewing and so-called "open positions" but not a lot of h…

I disagree; the nationwide median salary was $100,080; the bottom 10% earned less than $58,300. [1] The unemployment rate for Computer and Mathematical Occupations was about 2.0%. [2] Anecdotally, since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them, none of my friends from college are working outside of software. Some earn at the 10% spot in low cost-of-living areas, but they all ar…

>since a large part of someone's world view is by bad things that have happened to them

I've never thought of it this way, but it seems so obvious in retrospect.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#270

Post by jimmyk »

int_19h wrote: post #233
jimmyk wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will age very well. Successful countries that behave otherwise don't stay successful for that long. If a country doesn't put its interests first, who will?

Broadly controlling human migration at the border is a relatively recent thing (as in, just over a century). Taking US as an example where this sort of thing is a controversial political topic today - in most of the 19th century, if you had access to any means of transportation necessary to get there (including walking across the border from, say, Mexico or Canada), that was all you needed to become a legal resident.…

>Broadly controlling human migration at the border is a relatively recent thing (as in, just over a century).

When prior to industrialization would mass migration (especially of another ethnic group) have been seen by the current inhabitants as anything other than an invasion?

>Taking US as an example where this sort of thing is a controversial political topic today - in most of the 19th century, if you had access to any means of transportation necessary to get there (including walking across the border from, say, Mexico or Canada), that was all you needed to become a legal resident. Yet the country did just fine.

The immigration restrictions of the late 19th/early 20th century were a reaction to immigration numbers having risen beyond the point that the current inhabitants were comfortable with. Yes, controls were lax before then but that was a reflection of 1) the relatively low degree of conflict over resources (a result of industrialization), 2) the similarity of ethnicity/culture between the current inhabitants and the immigrants (they were predominantly Christians of European ancestry -- Chinese immigration was not viewed so favorably), and 3) comparatively low numbers of immigrants before ~1870, and especially before 1850.

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