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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#251

Post by acchow »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #246
indemnity wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a recent immigrant to NZ this annoys the hell out of me. Excellence should be rewarded and strived for, but people prefer comfortable mediocrity, because then they don’t feel like they’re underachieving.

I'll try to self-analyze and hopefully shed some light: I moved from India (Mumbai) when I was 10, to grow up in Vancouver. I've previously worked in NY, and I now work in Seattle (you can guess where), but think about moving back to Vancouver all the time to live a life of "mediocrity" and "underachieving". In both India and America, the mindset is "If you're not first you're last", but my mindset after growing up i…

Vancouver sounds quite different from Toronto. I see very little of this mentality among Torontonians. They do however enjoy complaining about lack of opportunities in Toronto.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#252

Post by vetinari »

winter_blue wrote: post #186
vetinari wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have an inherent right to enter a random country. People living there have to decide, who they allow to enter and who not. Usually, they set up a set of rules to decide, and it is up to them how these rules reflect their values.

And you absolutely don't have the right to threaten me with violence and harm with the aim of blocking me from inviting my non-citizen friend from staying at my house, in my property -- which is the despicable (and immoral) unquestioned status quo of today. Simply because you belong to a majority (or minority) of the citizens of my country, does not give you the right to dictate who I can hire, who I can invite into…

> And you absolutely don't have the right to threaten me with violence and harm with the aim of blocking me from inviting my non-citizen friend from staying at my house, in my property

I'm not. The sovereign is. By the definition, the monopoly to use the violence belongs to the sovereign, which in this age is in a form of a democracy or republic.

For you that means, that the majority of your co-citizens decided on some rules and if you break them, yes, violence may ensue, until you stop breaking them.

> which is the despicable (and immoral) unquestioned status quo of today.

As you were told in the sibling comment, your moral system and moral systems of others may be different.

> Simply because you belong to a majority (or minority) of the citizens of my country, does not give you the right to dictate

Yes, the majority has that rights. Again, the common name for that is democracy.

If you do not agree, use the first three of four boxes of liberty.

> who I can hire,

The majority definitely has this right. The labor market doesn't belong to you, you just participate there.

> who I can invite into my home, etc.

Fortunately for you, the majority in most countries consider tourism to be a good thing, where just the security of the others need to be taken care of. Tourist tend not to use social security, health care or other services, that were funded by your co-citizens and not your guests.

> For libertarian arguments underpinning this fundamentally moral and human rights issue

Libertarianism is just one of many ideologies in this world. It doesn't have a status of the only truth. Other ideologies or world-views have their own arguments.

Here I return to one of the box of liberty mentioned above, soapbox. For communication and discussion it is important not only to present your arguments, but also listen to the arguments of the others, who you might not agree with, and correctly embed their points and worries into your position. If you do not, it's you who will get ignored, as there would be no point of discussion.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#253

Post by sedachv »

stale2002 wrote: post #191
winter_blue wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the United States is a living example of a country that tried that, and um ... hasn't failed because of it. Until the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882, there were no restrictions on immigration. And after that, the immigration of white people was still completely unrestricted, until the Immigration Act of 1921. And after which, it was still relatively easy for citizens from Western European countries to move to th…

Sure. Back in the day, every new immigrant was one more able body, able to help colonize the rugged expanse, as well as work the farms, factories and railroads. These days, we don't need any more able-bodied factory workers. We are no longer an industrial-labor economy. We need service and skilled labor, instead.

> Back in the day, every new immigrant was one more able body, able to help colonize the rugged expanse, as well as work the farms, factories and railroads.

You need to stop relying on television shows for understanding history and read more. There was no "rugged expanse," there was an ongoing Native American genocide. Geronimo died in 1909. The Indian Wars did not end until 1924. As to how much laborers were really needed in factories, Sinclair's The Jungle (published in 1906) is a good illustration.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#254

Post by mattmanser »

eigenvector wrote: post #180
didibus wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it so much if Canada had comparable salaries. I'd move back for sure, at least if it came 10% within Seattle and SV. But, I'm not sure it's possible for companies to do so. I mean, first of all, in the US, outside of a few cities like NY, SV, Seattle, Bellevue, you start to see lower pay which gets closer to Canadian pay. Appart from that, Canada just doesn't have the same market. That's the biggest differen…

Here's my issue with your argument. The article we're commenting on is about Canadian companies being frustrated cause Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Apple hire away all the best Canadian talent. As a rule, Canadian citizens are highly mobile to the US due to the TN visa, the lack of a language barrier, close proximity and the extreme similarity of cultures. So if Canadian companies actually need that talent, and for some…

There's viable and there's fuelled by VC cash. There's no Full stop.

America's able to lure these workers by relying on easy investment money, not business viability.

You're pretending that there's an even playing field, and there isn't. If there were an even playing field, every firm would have left the valley decades ago to find cheaper workers.

But that's just not how it works.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#255

Post by zodiac »

sumitgt wrote: post #47

One reason that is often over-looked is the green card backlog issue in the US that affects tech workers from India/China. I'd easily make the choice to move to Canada where I can get a green card right away rather than wait 10 years for a green card in US. Salaries might be low, but one cannot put a $ amount on peace of mind.

Are you referring to Canadian permanent residency?

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#256

Post by kogepathic »

FT_intern wrote: post #147
gricardo99 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand the comment about exchange rate. In Canada, the price difference of goods with the U.S. is beyond just the exchange rate. Thus, you can convert a salary between USD and CAD, but that doesn't account for higher prices of goods in Canada (beyond exchange rate differences). This is why many Canadians shop in the U.S. (if feasible), or travel to the U.S. to make big purchases (such as cars). Whe…

The sales tax in canada is brutal

Not really. The highest sales tax is 15% (NB, NL, NS, PEI).

I'll grant that's higher than in some US states, but come over to Europe where VAT is usually 19-25%. Although at least in Europe prices are advertised including VAT, so no mental math is required to calculate how much it will end up costing.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#257

Post by [deleted] »

mattmanser wrote: post #254
eigenvector wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my issue with your argument. The article we're commenting on is about Canadian companies being frustrated cause Google/Facebook/Microsoft/Apple hire away all the best Canadian talent. As a rule, Canadian citizens are highly mobile to the US due to the TN visa, the lack of a language barrier, close proximity and the extreme similarity of cultures. So if Canadian companies actually need that talent, and for some…

There's viable and there's fuelled by VC cash. There's no Full stop. America's able to lure these workers by relying on easy investment money, not business viability. You're pretending that there's an even playing field, and there isn't. If there were an even playing field, every firm would have left the valley decades ago to find cheaper workers. But that's just not how it works.

[deleted]

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#258

Post by emilyfm »

vkou wrote: post #245
int_19h wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vancouver is a bit of a special case because of how insane the property prices are there. It's like the Canadian SF, except without the job market.

It's also the only major Canadian city in the same time zone as Silicon Valley... And is three hours away from Seattle. I suppose there's also Victoria, but there's no tech jobs there.

Here's a frequently updated list of tech startup jobs in Victoria:

https://github.com/sendwithus/vic-startup-jobs

Victoria also has nicer weather than Vancouver (less summer rain). Direct flights to Seattle and SF.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#259

Post by raverbashing »

shados wrote: post #216
moolcool wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone in this thread is talking about Vancouver, which is a housing nightmare. The scene in other Canadian cities is more practical

Where? Toronto housing isn't cheap by Canadian standards, and salaries, while higher as far as I know, are not super high either. Montreal is ridiculous since it is essentially NYC's favorite "nearshoring" . It's also big for game dev, which pays like crap even by Montreal standards. Is it better in Edmonton? No idea. But with Vancouver/Montreal/Toronto out of the picture, that leaves precious few options.

Montreal rents are not too expensive, no.

There are other issues though

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#260

Post by Broken_Hippo »

chongli wrote: post #109
ryandrake wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This line of reasoning is not compatible with Birthright Citizenship. If sovereignty is all about prohibiting entry to people who don't add value, why is it not also about kicking existing people out who don't add value?

The prime responsibility of the sovereign state is to maintain the social order. Deporting the children of citizens and breaking up their families is a remarkably swift way to break down the social order. This is basically sovereign suicide.

Plus I think the rest of the world would have problems with a country dumping unvalued citizens on them. Being stateless is no joke - and besides, where would they deport to? They are citizens.
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