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Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

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Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#201

Post by sergers »

lacampbell wrote: post #68
nacho2sweet wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah who the fuck wants to live in Waterloo Ontario when you can live in California? Lmao. Real Canadian Winter, and crap summer. Many of the devs worth their dime in Vancouver end up remote working when they get to the Sr. level. Get paid in USD, and for 25-30% more in a stronger currency. Works out to almost 60% more?! also if you aren't a city person you can then move to one of the gulf islands.

American companies routinely pay remote foreign workers at American rates? I find it a bit hard to believe.

If they don't have an office in the remote country they do.

I know a few vancouverites who live in Vancouver, who are working for Texas based companies, no local office in the country

They are paid in USD.

When the cdn dollar tanked against usd after being on par, it was like a 30-40% raise for them in cdn just cause of the exchange rate

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#202

Post by shados »

ska wrote: post #140
shados wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After living expenses, health insurance, taxes, etc, just moving south my net income tripled. 5 years later, I'm pushing something like 8x what disposable income would have been by now if I compare with my old colleagues. And that's even after I take out the extra expenses of my mortgage being 11x what my rent used to be (by choice, it was "only" 4x higher originally, since I lived in a rent controlled area for almos…

Path dependence and all that, so I'm sure this is how things worked out for you. People should be aware though, your example isn't even close to usual. Work the numbers for a simple case - for round numbers take 100k/yr and 1000/month disposable. To do 8x that you are adding basically another 100k, post tax - so add another 35 k. Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general,…

2.5x sounds about right post tax, post expenses, including higher rent, for the same role. That's already a huge difference

But as you mentioned, unless you compare different jobs: the same opportunities simply don't exist up there. Making 300k, 400k or more? Its certainly not common in NYC or SF, but if you try hard enough, and shoot for it, its possible. Up north? Maybe as an exec, but as an individual contributor or tech leadish style position? I wouldn't know where to start looking. While here there's a lot of options. There's not for everyone by a long shot, but they are there.

Thus 8x or more becomes possible. And someone like a top Waterloo engineering graduate has an above average chance at those. But I don't know where they would without moving country.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#203

Post by EduardoBautista »

ryanobjc wrote: post #90
personjerry wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don't believe that they will eventually make all that much money That is a pattern I've noticed in Canada in contrast to the US in fact; We settle for "good enough" or "profitable" but not the "moonshots" or strive to be "the best". Whether in tech, business, or even global influence, we are a "middle power" and we seem happy about it (my high school politics teacher explains that this is a result of constantly bein…

There are plenty of ambitious Canadians working on moonshots. They live in the Bay Area, LA, NYC and more.

The American dream is still alive it appears.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#204

Post by kareemm »

stale2002 wrote: post #131
kareemm wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And Canadian companies can't afford developers as is, and you suggest increasing the cost of said developers which would force Canadian companies to either change field or close their doors. If Canadian companies can't afford to pay developers what the market bears out, they will close because those developers will get paid what they're worth somewhere else. That's capitalism. You're suggesting Canadian developers…

Canadian developers should compete in the market and should not make up new BS laws to keep out competition. If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. We are specifically arguing that the market should determine salaries. Don't put up barriers to entry. Let the market work it out.

I'm not arguing we should put up barriers like certification.

I'm merely stating that if I were a Canadian developer competing against other developers for a job, and the supply of competitive developers increased, I would be unhappy because that would drive down salaries. This is uncontroversial.

Barriers to competition like certification are one way to keep salaries high. I'm surprised that for how analytical developers are, this barrier has yet to be erected.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#205

Post by potatolicious »

ska wrote: post #140
shados wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After living expenses, health insurance, taxes, etc, just moving south my net income tripled. 5 years later, I'm pushing something like 8x what disposable income would have been by now if I compare with my old colleagues. And that's even after I take out the extra expenses of my mortgage being 11x what my rent used to be (by choice, it was "only" 4x higher originally, since I lived in a rent controlled area for almos…

Path dependence and all that, so I'm sure this is how things worked out for you. People should be aware though, your example isn't even close to usual. Work the numbers for a simple case - for round numbers take 100k/yr and 1000/month disposable. To do 8x that you are adding basically another 100k, post tax - so add another 35 k. Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general,…

> "Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general, for the same job."

I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for work - this multiple sounds entirely plausible, in fact it sounds like a conservative estimate.

In major tech hubs the multiple is closer to 3-4x.

> "Much more realistic is a 30% bump"

This is not at all realistic - I know many Canadians working in the US as developers and all of them are making well in excess of 200% of their Canadian market rate.

You're characterizing Canadian tech salaries (in say, Vancouver or Toronto) as being moderately below US standards (~30%?), where in fact they are vastly below the standard in comparable markets (SFBA, Seattle, NYC, etc). The gap is already big for new grads, but it widens even further with experience. A dev with ~5+ years of experience can reasonably triple their salary moving south.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#206

Post by shados »

potatolicious wrote: post #205
ska wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Path dependence and all that, so I'm sure this is how things worked out for you. People should be aware though, your example isn't even close to usual. Work the numbers for a simple case - for round numbers take 100k/yr and 1000/month disposable. To do 8x that you are adding basically another 100k, post tax - so add another 35 k. Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general,…

> "Do at this rate you have a salary multiple of 2.35. This just doesn't happen in general, for the same job." I'm a Canadian that moved to the US for work - this multiple sounds entirely plausible, in fact it sounds like a conservative estimate. In major tech hubs the multiple is closer to 3-4x. > "Much more realistic is a 30% bump" This is not at all realistic - I know many Canadians working in the US as developers…

Yup, exactly. I mean, I can see it happening frequently the way the person who replied to me said it. If you're in a hot area in Canada that pays decently (I think Toronto is probably not bad, I never worked there), you probably can hit 100k? Then if you move in a tech hub and you're not all that, 135-140k is possible. Then your multiplier isn't that high.

But if you were making 70-80k in Canada then hit the US and do 200k + RSUs + bonus, you're in a much different world...and it can just keep going up and up and up and up, while up north you will hit a wall much sooner.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#207

Post by [deleted] »

bogomipz wrote: post #192
stale2002 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Artists, teachers, journalists, social service workers" Sure. And if someone offered any of those people 100 million dollars, to work at a job that they liked moderately less than their current job for a single year, it is a universal truth that they should do it (unless they already have a billion in the bank I guess). It is not about trading happiness for money. It is about trading a small amount of happiness NOW…

>"And if someone offered any of those people 100 million dollars, to work at a job that they liked moderately less than their current job for a single year," Are you just trolling then? The "what if someone offered you 100 million dollars?" game is a game that children play. Your insistence on repeatedly interjecting this bit of childishness is just bizarre. The context of the discussion and the OPs comment is workin…

[deleted]

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#209

Post by dleslie »

drspacemonkey wrote: post #3

While we could certainly pick up a few people, I can't see how it could possibly be more than a few unless Canada's tech firms start paying more. Source: developer in Vancouver who could easily get 2x the salary a 4 hour train ride south. I stay in Canada because it's my home.

> I stay in Canada because it's my home.

Likewise; all things considered, I consider the value of staying in Vancouver well worth the difference in salary to the USA.

However, I prefer to work in video games, and in this industry compensation is shit basically everywhere.

Re: Canada's Tech Firms Capitalize On Immigration Anxiety

#210

Post by jonny_eh »

bogomipz wrote: post #81
BrainInAJar wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian tech worker in SF... Nope. I tripled my salary coming down here even in just nominal terms (ie, before you factor in the exchange rate that eats 25% of your salary.) I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary.

>"I hate SF/SiValley. I would love nothing more than to go home, but I'm not about to take a paycut that's measured in multiples of the median Canadian salary." This is an honest question - is it worth living somewhere you "hate" for increased pay? Why not take less money and live in place that would make you happy?

Life, like engineering, is all about trade-offs.
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